Natural Freedom

Apologies if this is in the wrong department.

I'm very curious to see what others have on this topic: Who are the naturals to learn from; Zan/Rion?

Before coming across Natural Freedom, which I take much liking in, I was reading and viewing Real Social Dynamics (RSD). Would others view RSD as Flawless Naturals or Dorks w/ techniques?

My mind is overwhelmed, do this or do that! I'm overwhelmed with which teacher to learn from. Opinions?

Pretty much everyone here, learns from the Kidd. As well as a bunch of other sources. Rion and Zan have mixed reviews . As I'm sure some others will comment.
Check out the Kidd's section to start it's got some good stuff.

Most "teachers" are only interested in your money. But try everything, then you can say the decision was your own and if your wrong all you've lost is time. But don't buy anything from them lol.

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"The heart is deep beyond all things, and it is the man. Even so, who can know him."

Time is more precious than money, you can never get more of it.

But, I will look at his post. Not to be noisy, but I'd like to know about the Kidd before I begin reading his posts. Is there an intro post to him?

Kidd has very deep and insightful posts so I would start reading them. For this I suggess reading the stuff in the "Treasure Chest" section of this forum, much gold in there!

And read the posts of Peregrinus too, they are about the same as Kidds posts but from a second perspective. Its always good to have two people talking and recommending almost the same. They both come from very different backgronds so this makes it even better. And the best thing that happens here is when Kidd and Peregrinus comment on the same question/experience

When it comes to other "natural" teachers I can recommend

- Brent Smith
- Jake
- Felix and Angelo from social-buddha.com
- Authentic man program

But first I advise just reading the forum and let its wisdom affect you.

thank you, but curiosity arises: where did the kidd come from?

You can read that written by himself in the first post here http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=228

David X has some good points too...

I think the idea of needing a teacher, is highly overrated. Yet, very commonly believed in my culture, it can be helpfull but also just as easy harmfull/slowing one down.
I think learning from experience, your own observations and personal logical analyses (from that). Is by far the most important thing.
When I get stuck at something, or can't seem to get it clear from my own experiences and logic. Then I will go to others, to see if I can find answers for that, which I'm stuck at.
Also sometimes, a "teacher"/person can make you re-asses what you think. But yet imo, it's still best to first use your own logic and observation, instead of just following it/someone.

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There is no individual doer of any action or deed. Yet deeds are done and actions happen.

Hello, TheDude. Why people will blindly listen to Zan/Rion and yet question me incessantly is something I will never understand.

Ah well...here, I know what you need...a success story.

Here ya go: http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1091

I hope you find what you are looking for here.

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING.

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!

if you want to know about Rion\Zan\RSD there is an entire section about it...
We talked about Rion, Zan and RSD if you just look ....

read first ask later :

http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewforum.php?f=15

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"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"

Welcome TheDude.

Let me ask you a question:

All those 'teachers' that you sought out, that you got references on and checked 'where they came from', how much good did they do you?

The references are irrelevant, the content is relevant.

Read the content and decide if it is for you, use it if it is, throw it away if it is not.

Simple.

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

also remember that some teachers don't tell the truth or often lie about their backround, see for example:

http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=675

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"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"

i re-read pimposophy(putting my ego aside) and it's funny how everything we talk here is allready written there, i realized that it was very advanced for me and that's why i did'nt see the whole picture before, so i reccomend to start from there and swallow the red pill, also there are alot of valuable post here

Heck ya man, I try to re-read it every few weeks to a month. Everytime I read I get new insights, then I go out into the real world with those for a while, and learn experientially. This changes a person and when I come back it’s like I see entirely new stuff in Kidd’s pimposophies that I never noticed before. It’s definitely pretty much all a guy needs if he’s willing to accept it.

Because Rion and Zan sugarcoat things and you do not. You say look at yourself and they pull your pee pee to thai music and whatever Zan does.
It's the same mindset that fuels acai berry. Instead of diet.

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"The heart is deep beyond all things, and it is the man. Even so, who can know him."

What Zan does is pull people into a fantasy world of the 1700s (mostly with story telling and poems) which sounds great but unrealistic for the most part when dealing with modern women In this day and age.

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"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"

This is a long post, but I go through my experience with the material of several "natural teachers".

I wouldn't recommend Zan either. I was part of the Amorati and while in the program no one had any success. Like Sniper says, at face value Zan's message is about being the hopeless romantic and about fully expressing those desires.

What he fails to make a strong point on, is that he is indifferent and doesn't care. I recall only reading one of his posts where he briefly mentioned he wasn't attached to the outcome. However, he went all poet and called this "dancing in the moment" instead of just putting it out there bluntly for everyone to understand.

That is why you see Zan's students going around like Pepe le Pew involved in a fantasy romantic trance where all women fart pixie dust. Zan even mentioned that those who think this is his message are "spectacularly missing the point."

Obviously! In coming across as the modern day casanova he takes away all practical value of his teachings and it becomes a philosophy kind of like fantasy where all women are adored. He even mentions all women are like little girls wanting their dad's attention.

Skip it. Or if you look into it, just take it as seriously as you would when reading a romance novel or watching a soap.

Rion is full of crap. I doubt he is successful with women as he says he is. Mr. "I am so funny and the most fun guy in the room" talks a lot but it seems to me he doesn't really measure up.

I checked out his FB profile and he is just seen making try-hard bad ass poses. Being from Latin America I wasn't impressed with his album from Colombia. He was shown around 3 women who I am sure are either prostitutes or just women looking for high rolling tourists. Definitely not average or high quality women.

As for Brent he is very direct about his teachings, but as was discussed in this forum, he relies too much on using affirmations and visualizations for success. If you haven't really released or let go of wanting approval, love and neediness then it won't work for you. Brent's teachings are not meant to be used as techniques to get women, because they won't work for you without the proper foundations.

The only mainstream teachers that are the most pragmatic in my opinion are Assanova and Aaron Sleazy. They come across like regular guys who figured it out and are not wanting to shove products down your throat even though they do sell ebooks and stuff. Both of them provide the exact same message as the Kidd.

Sleazy says seduction is simple. Look for a woman who likes you, approach and don't fuck it up. It's that simple. Assanova says the exact same thing, about observing and looking out to those women who are checking him out. Then he just swoops in, approaches and is direct about his intentions. Both of them are big about not caring or giving a crap.

Look around and judge for yourself. The information in this forum is top notch and best of all, no one is seeking to leech off your wallet. I trust this source more than anything else because of that. Always use a big a filter for the tons of crap, and shy away people telling you to behave in x, y or z way in order to get something from women

hey diego,
great review man,

you know there is a guy from Finland who emailed me like three times trying to get me into the Amorati stuff. I said no thanks but he kept telling me stuff like:
your children will thank you for it and other weird stuff like that. I'm not even married and I don't have children.. even for a marketing stratigy it's weird

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"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"