Natural Freedom

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:54 pm 
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Meraki wrote:
Patience, patience.
Flux wrote:
A, I would probably get angry, feel depressed, I'd cry and shit. then I would move on and enjoy my interests, starting with one, finishing, and moving to the next. I would come to peace with not have a woman eventually. I'd focus on my lifestyle without women.
Ok, how long would it take you to feel what you need to feel, then move on and come to peace with not having women? When would you give yourself permission to let go of your attachment to "female sexual acceptance"?
That depends on me.It could be like a week to years depending if I was serious about actually letting it or holding on to maybe maybe if i just try again...I could get one. Which I would hold on to because...I feel that I need that to not just release my sexual desire but to feel worthy, that some ne actually like me. I feel that I can't really believe a women truly likes me unless she has sex with me. I would let go of female sexual acceptance, when I truly feel that I don't give a fuck about what any girl thinks or my parent,friends, others think about sex...um idk.

I don't see myself letting go right now. It's gonna be very painful just the possibility of it now makes my stomach burn. I would have to give up....and deal with the possibility of being alone forever and never experiencing my fantasies/sex. If today I said no more women...I would feel this burn but maybe it would go away..I would have to ignore women completely, shit it would cause me to focus on myself and other problems completely.

Yeah, I don't see the anger ever going away, I can't put a time on it.
Meraki wrote:
Flux wrote:
B,I would like it. I would get a short high from it, even at the logically knowing that all my problems aren't fixed. It would feel like it. The feeling of being wanted, power, the validation would go to my head. Then I think I would started to get tired of it. Like women getting chased by guys, It would become an annoyance, because the drama that would come with it. I would want to relax and focus on creating or getting shit done.

I really can't add much more than that, I... think that's how It would be for me.
How long would it take you to get tired of it? How long before you would get annoyed and just want to relax and focus on doing things for yourself?
If it was constantly, about a week or month. I know for a fact with multiple women there will be drama. Shit I just don't to deal with.
(for this I really don't feel it, I don't know really)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:53 pm 
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Maybe, I can't, I don't, I need, I feel, I doubt, I [instert excuse]... :evil:
Stop the fucking speculations Flux!

This isn't multiple choice exam, it's a fucking binary decision, either you let go (free spirit) or you are attached (steak eater). Decide.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:26 pm 
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Flux wrote:
If it was constantly, about a week or month. I know for a fact with multiple women there will be drama. Shit I just don't to deal with.
(for this I really don't feel it, I don't know really)
Only if you don't set the terms of engagement properly..crazy theory. You could just not let them bullshit you with drama.

If they start just be like "Don't care"

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:14 pm 
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Flux wrote:
That depends on me.It could be like a week to years depending if I was serious about actually letting it or holding on to maybe maybe if i just try again...I could get one. Which I would hold on to because...I feel that I need that to not just release my sexual desire but to feel worthy, that some ne actually like me. I feel that I can't really believe a women truly likes me unless she has sex with me. I would let go of female sexual acceptance, when I truly feel that I don't give a fuck about what any girl thinks or my parent,friends, others think about sex...um idk.

I don't see myself letting go right now. It's gonna be very painful just the possibility of it now makes my stomach burn. I would have to give up....and deal with the possibility of being alone forever and never experiencing my fantasies/sex. If today I said no more women...I would feel this burn but maybe it would go away..I would have to ignore women completely, shit it would cause me to focus on myself and other problems completely.

Yeah, I don't see the anger ever going away, I can't put a time on it.
Read this over again Flux. There is so much in here for you to seriously sit down and contemplate with yourself.
Flux wrote:
It could be like a week to years depending if I was serious about actually letting it or holding on to maybe
This is the place to start. Are you serious about doing this work? Its not the easier path. Like Dali said - do you want steak or do you want freedom? Decide. NOW!

If you want steak, then you should probably leave this forum and don't come back. If you want freedom, then sit your ass down and get to work. You have many pushups ahead of you. Before I spend any more time analyzing the rest of your post, you need to make this decision and commit one way or the other.

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:30 pm 
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Dali wrote:
Maybe, I can't, I don't, I need, I feel, I doubt, I [instert excuse]... :evil:
Stop the fucking speculations Flux!

This isn't multiple choice exam, it's a fucking binary decision, either you let go (free spirit) or you are attached (steak eater). Decide.
I couldn't see it before, now I see how simple it is. Yeah fuck women, I'll take some free spirit well done.

Meraki wrote:


This is the place to start. Are you serious about doing this work? Its not the easier path. Like Dali said - do you want steak or do you want freedom? Decide. NOW!
I'm Serious. I want freedom.

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"...There is only one thing you can do. Master that one thing!...What you must be doing is visualizing yourself at your most powerful. You don't need any external enemies. The only opponent you must fight, is none other than your own image."


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:46 pm 
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Working on something else in your life that excites you doesn't solve the core of the problems, but helps keeping broader perspective.. It certainly helped me, without it I'd be still sitting on my depressed ass in the corner :geek:
If you don't feel there is anything besides women that'd excite you really, it's ok, I've been through that (read my older threads) and it will go away if you want it to.. I discovered I like tons of things and I don't think I'm done with discovering them :lol:
BTW I've been identifying with my suffering a lot, do you think there is a possibility you are doing something simmilar ?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:47 pm 
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Flux wrote:
I'm Serious. I want freedom.
Up it a level.

A million guys 'want' a ripped body, or to excel in their field, etc.

People who achieve, freedom included (vast majority) make a commitment. Wanting is not a commitment. 'Fuck women' is not a commitment-- it's also not even useful if it's not truly, truly what's going on inside of you.

Commitment is: I will commit to learning what works, and then doing it .. every. single. fucking. day. and keep going no matter what it takes. That's the actual work part - not the part that discusses the work or reads about it.

Making a commitment puts you in a certain class. If you're still actually doing it 3 months later you are in a much smaller class.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:06 pm 
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Flux wrote:
I'm Serious. I want freedom.
Good. But like Flow said - make it into a real commitment.
Flux wrote:
I couldn't see it before, now I see how simple it is. Yeah fuck women, I'll take some free spirit well done.
If you're really serious about this and really making a commitment, you might want to consider taking an intentional break from women for a while. Until you truly don't NEED anything from them, you are in a bad spot.
Flux wrote:
If today I said no more women...I would feel this burn but maybe it would go away..I would have to ignore women completely, shit it would cause me to focus on myself and other problems completely.
This is where the rubber meets the road. You need to quit NEEDING women, and you need to do it cold turkey. There is no half eating steak half having freedom.

This thread might be useful to you:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2945

PUSHUPS. NAO!!!

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:26 am 
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So much goodness in this thread!

[ img ]

Flux to your first post, joining here and seeing everything your shown to can be OVERWHELMING.
Much like when Neo couldn't handle reality and blacked the fuck out, and ATE SHIT!
Luckily Neo, even though it is fiction and a movie :lol: had Morpheus and the crew.
So do you.
You have this forum and all the ballers on it to guide you if needed.
But NO one here is going to drive the bus for you, you gotta drive it your god damn self. :mrgreen:

I write this, because I see your new.
I've been here since 2010 and ONLY recently am I coming to terms with things;
would've been much sooner if I committed myself fully, but I wasn't ready.

Take things a spoon full at a time, unless you can handle a lot more.
But, from your response it doesn't seem like you can, so act accordingly.
Resonance wrote:
This one is simple enough, fuck them because they won't give a fuck about you unless you are someone of value, cherish your solitude because once you do get involved with a female your peace of mind won't be there as much if at all. It still sounds like you haven't befriended your self at all, read my signature by Tom Bay it should answer all of your questions. 8-)
This is just pure gold!
Meraki wrote:
Ok, well, I'm just gonna tell you right now that your problem with women starts with the fact that you need them. If you didn't need them, the fact that none are choosing you wouldn't bother you at all, and you wouldn't feel a need to chase in order to get one.

The issue isn't the lack of women in your life, its the fact that you aren't OK with the lack of women in your life. Paradoxically, once you are OK with the lack of women, then you most likely will start having a lot more of them come knocking.
This one opened something up for me!
If you get this message it's bomb!
Or, you could take the path to work on NOT needing women in order to get more of them :lol: (I did that); that can be a mess in itself, but can also be a part of the process.
Hopefully, sooner than later you'll realize that all this isn't even about the pussy, it's about you having a better life and a life you want.

Meraki, your squeezing the lemon and those questions where great!
I'm going to answers those questions myself and see where they go.

Flow and Meraki are right, commitment is BIG. So is, ACTION.
Meraki wrote:
If you're really serious about this and really making a commitment, you might want to consider taking an intentional break from women for a while. Until you truly don't NEED anything from them, you are in a bad spot.
I've taken a leave of absence from females; 90 day challenge. The findings have ranged from hilarious to uncomfortable.
Seems like you need some time with yourself Flux.
Learn to be with yourself, and you can be with anyone.


EDIT: Know what you want.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:17 am 
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TheDude wrote:
I've taken a leave of absence from females; 90 day challenge. The findings have ranged from hilarious to uncomfortable.
Seems like you need some time with yourself Flux.
Learn to be with yourself, and you can be with anyone.
Nice Dude. This is a great step. I did this myself, although I didn't put a formal number of days on it, and it lasted almost 5 months. A big thing I would recommend is to also not watch any porn during your challenge. Porn = escapism into fantasy-land and avoiding being with yourself, and perpetuates neediness, frustration, and desire.

And as for the squeezing the lemon question - its a powerful thing to do with any attachment you have, whether its women, or things like acceptance from your parents, other social situations, etc. The best thing to do is to try different variations of the questions until you find the one that triggers you the most powerfully. Then explore it.

So, maybe the question is, "what if I never have sex ever again?" Or maybe what triggers you is, "what if no woman will ever want to be my girlfriend for the rest of my life?" Or maybe its, "what if no woman ever even finds me at all attractive in any way ever again?"

Play around with all sorts of different variations. Listen to your gut and it will tell you which one triggers you the most. Ask yourself the question many times and each time you ask it, just sit there and let whatever comes up come up. Then start asking yourself why - really delve deep into it. Don't go to trying to change your response to the question, but instead just ask why it triggers you, and what would be so unbearable about the situation you're asking about, and where your attachment/aversion came from.

Really contemplate this. When I first did the squeezing the lemon thing about not ever having sex ever again, I contemplated it for over 3 weeks straight, pretty much every single night for anywhere from 15 minutes to several hours a night.

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:35 pm 
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Meraki wrote:
So, maybe the question is, "what if I never have sex ever again?" Or maybe what triggers you is, "what if no woman will ever want to be my girlfriend for the rest of my life?" Or maybe its, "what if no woman ever even finds me at all attractive in any way ever again?"

Play around with all sorts of different variations. Listen to your gut and it will tell you which one triggers you the most. Ask yourself the question many times and each time you ask it, just sit there and let whatever comes up come up. Then start asking yourself why - really delve deep into it. Don't go to trying to change your response to the question, but instead just ask why it triggers you, and what would be so unbearable about the situation you're asking about, and where your attachment/aversion came from.

Really contemplate this. When I first did the squeezing the lemon thing about not ever having sex ever again, I contemplated it for over 3 weeks straight, pretty much every single night for anywhere from 15 minutes to several hours a night.
I feel this will bring some interesting things to the surface.
One part of this process is how HONEST you can be with yourself.
I diluted many things myself to beat aaround the problem, rather than face it head on.
Quote:
The issue isn't the lack of women in your life, its the fact that you aren't OK with the lack of women in your life. Paradoxically, once you are OK with the lack of women, then you most likely will start having a lot more of them come knocking.
This was something that tripped me OUT! :shock:
You're on the money with it...great write!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:56 am 
Resonance wrote:
Altair wrote:
Just looking around and noticing your surroundings gives you a chance to see attachment as it rises. Like a mechanic taking the car out to see how the engine is working. ;)
Good point :geek: :arrow: :oops:
I'm going to push back on this a little bit. I agree that being observant helps just like working on the internal helps. However, if you cannot process the observations in a positive way then nothing will come of it.

In my personal journey, I've had to go through both realms.

Stage 1: learn about the matrix
Stage 2: learn my place in the matrix
Stage 3: understand how I feel about the matrix.
Stage 4: understand what I want to do with myself.
Stage 5: repeat the process.
Stage 6: Let go.
Stage 7: maintain.

The first realm was external. The second realm was internal. At the current stage, why would it be beneficial to switch from internal to external when dude is having problems with the internal?

I'm asking a serious question. I'm not being facetious.

It seems like you're advocating that he go back to square one. At each point, when I thought I knew myself well enough, I went back to the external to confirm my results.

I don't know where I'm going with this. I just think there is a different answer here.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:21 am 
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:lol:

People come into your life in spite of your neediness,
not because of it. Because they choose to be in your life.
Thus, you can let neediness go.

Leave yourself alone. None of it is on you.
(Shocking!)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:02 pm 
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Flow83 wrote:

Making a commitment puts you in a certain class. If you're still actually doing it 3 months later you are in a much smaller class.
So Flux, it's 3 months later. Did you make a commitment to yourself or not?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:31 pm 
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Slim Titan wrote:
Resonance wrote:
Altair wrote:
Just looking around and noticing your surroundings gives you a chance to see attachment as it rises. Like a mechanic taking the car out to see how the engine is working. ;)
Good point :geek: :arrow: :oops:
I'm going to push back on this a little bit. I agree that being observant helps just like working on the internal helps. However, if you cannot process the observations in a positive way then nothing will come of it.

In my personal journey, I've had to go through both realms.

Stage 1: learn about the matrix
Stage 2: learn my place in the matrix
Stage 3: understand how I feel about the matrix.
Stage 4: understand what I want to do with myself.
Stage 5: repeat the process.
Stage 6: Let go.
Stage 7: maintain.

The first realm was external. The second realm was internal. At the current stage, why would it be beneficial to switch from internal to external when dude is having problems with the internal?

I'm asking a serious question. I'm not being facetious.

It seems like you're advocating that he go back to square one. At each point, when I thought I knew myself well enough, I went back to the external to confirm my results.

I don't know where I'm going with this. I just think there is a different answer here.
I think this is the best thing you've ever posted...I FEEL this. 8-)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:19 am 
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I guess there is more than one valid way to look at it.

I prefer to reflect and work through things real time, that way when I need to count on my mind I know it's battle tested.

I multitask and focus on both internal and external at the same time.

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A truly powerful Man jealously guards his most precious resources; his independence and his ability to maneuver. True power isn’t controlling others, but the degree to which you control the course of your own life and your own choices. -Rational Male


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:20 pm 
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It's an important point IMHO. The external is a mirror of the internal, to ignore it is to miss the point-- it is your feedback mechanism. This also leads to becoming an inner-junkie as a means of avoidance: I don't want to face what I see in the mirror, which is showing me in plain sight all what's there and what's actually not working, so I'll just close my eyes and do more pondering on it

It'd be like styling your hair but refusing to look in the mirror. No, i'm just going to close my eyes and "style it" some more, keep doing more stuff, keep throwing colored dyes into it and because i'm doing "work" it should be getting better. Meanwhile you are making a mess, but you won't just look at it and see.

It sounds ridiculous but this is what happens. People doing all sorts of practices, could write long epic posts about theories and inner work, the matrix, the mind, and meanwhile their actual life (the mirror) is a total mess and has absolutely no correlation to anything they say. You must look directly at what is in the mirror and face seeing it for what it is.. and accepting it, no matter how unlike you want it to be or think it should be. Then you can work with it maturely instead of from denial. The more deeply focus into it, the separation between the inner and outer starts to be revealed as an illusion although a rather convincing one.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:08 am 
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This is why people who are very successful in their given fields like Donald Trump have no problem selling their secrets. People just take in information.

People who try and fail and try and refine until they get it are so small in number they don't pose a threat.

_________________
A truly powerful Man jealously guards his most precious resources; his independence and his ability to maneuver. True power isn’t controlling others, but the degree to which you control the course of your own life and your own choices. -Rational Male


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:22 pm 
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When you become indifferent or free from your attachment to wanting approval from women it literally does not change shit. You don't automatically have women throwing themselves at you just cause you don't care about getting laid anymore. Too be honest, your going to have to face the hard truth that your never going to be that guy that gets tons of hot women without doing anything.

The only thing that a girl is attracted to is when a guy is being himself and he's not trying. That's what girls are attracted to. But even if you begin being comfortable in your own skin, your never going to be a guy that walks into a bar and has a supermodel begging u to have sex with her.

Your really never going to be that guy. So you might as well just accept it and start focusing on something else that can actually add value to your life.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:11 pm 
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MattD wrote:
When you become indifferent or free from your attachment to wanting approval from women it literally does not change shit. You don't automatically have women throwing themselves at you just cause you don't care about getting laid anymore. Too be honest, your going to have to face the hard truth that your never going to be that guy that gets tons of hot women without doing anything.

The only thing that a girl is attracted to is when a guy is being himself and he's not trying. That's what girls are attracted to. But even if you begin being comfortable in your own skin, your never going to be a guy that walks into a bar and has a supermodel begging u to have sex with her.

Your really never going to be that guy. So you might as well just accept it and start focusing on something else that can actually add value to your life.
Actually you start to be yourself, behave as you naturally are, when you have no attachments (not outcome oriented). Because, If you still thinking of the end gratification (supermodels begging for sex? :lol: ), after you "tought you were deattached" and then nothing happened, is because you are still attached. Is simple. Another thing, get in check the projections you are doing, aka projecting limiting beliefs.

To add another thing, I suggest you search the thread: 'The difference between apathy vs indifference.'

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