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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:55 pm 
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Shay wrote:
Naled wrote:
He said a lot of things, I really advise you to move on.
What you mean Shay?


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:21 am 
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Naled wrote:
What you mean Shay?
That Ng is good but on it's own isn't going to produce the results Rion brags about- not in the west anyway....

pm me if you want more deatails on what I'm doing these days......

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"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"
Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:01 am 
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Shay gave me an interesting site.
It discuss the difference between dating & women in the US and abroad.
http://www.happierabroad.com/ebook/Contents.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:03 am 
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Naled wrote:
The Kidd!! wrote:
It's hooey. :mrgreen:
Can you explain more why, The Kidd?
Because it doesn't even work for Rion, which is why he has to take off to environments where ANYBODY could get laid whether they are naturally grounded or not. The reason why his approach doesn't work stateside is because American women (or apply this to women in your home area) will not (generally) deal with someone they perceive isn't getting ahead in life and is otherwise full of shit. He knows that his shit ain't tight (especially financially), so he can't look a domestic broad in the face without being overwhelmed with insecurity, which is why he can't wait to hop the next plane to Thailand where he can portray himself to be whomever he wants...his own little fantasy land.

This is why, to me, NG is hooey. Take the time, energy and money some of you are spending on this, and apply it instead to going to the gym, getting an education or starting a business to increase your overall status in society and boost your confidence and self esteem legitimately.

Or, as I have also suggested, send it to me for some Skype coaching. Seriously. 8-)

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING. :ugeek:


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:19 am 
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hmm you must be right about "which is why he has to take off to environments where ANYBODY could get laid whether they are naturally grounded or not."

But, question, why do you think ANYBODY could get laid in this environement. If this "anybody" dissemble himself as a thai man, and go there, what do you think would happen?

And what you are telling is that women are attracted to our social status. You must be right, some does. But personally I don't even want such a woman in the first place.
I'm sure there remain integrous women who just want Love & connection. Not money, social status, or ego-gain. I hope at least lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:21 am 
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Naled wrote:
hmm you must be right about "which is why he has to take off to environments where ANYBODY could get laid whether they are naturally grounded or not."

But, question, why do you think ANYBODY could get laid in this environement. If this "anybody" dissemble himself as a thai man, and go there, what do you think would happen?

And what you are telling is that women are attracted to our social status. You must be right, some does. But personally I don't even want such a woman in the first place.
I'm sure there remain integrous women who just want Love & connection. Not money, social status, or ego-gain. I hope at least lol.
Whenever you go to an unfamiliar environment, it is criminally easy to embellish who you are, because NO ONE KNOWS YOU. Rion goes to Thailand, and it doesn't take much American Dollars to look like a king. ANYONE could do this. Now, the Thai man, unless he is rich, will not have the same luck because of the exchange rate.

As far as the social status goes, it's no different to how some men are attracted by a woman's tits first then really start liking her as they start to talk to each other. It's a door opener...an ice breaker. Also, I'm not saying that I march around flaunting my status...I'm not gaudy and actually dress very conservative. But because I know where I stand with my fellow man, and that I know who I am and what I am capable of, my persona/aura is immense. THAT is what actually attracts women to me...everything else that pops up in conversation just seals the deal.

I just met this beautiful Mexican woman yesterday, and just got off the phone with her after talking for an hour. She said that she fell in love with my eyes, and that they were just so pretty and piercing. Consider that if I wasn't confident in myself when I was introduced, my gaze would probably have been averted and my body language introverted...I would have had nowhere NEAR the impact. Add the fact that the person who introduced me too her has already informed her that I am wrapping up a very accelerated degree program in 3 months that will probably double my salary instantly and really all I had to do was make sure I wasn't spitting in her face when I was talking. :lol:

It all comes together in the end, my friend. Women do want love and connection...they just so also happen to want you to meet a certain criteria first before they allow themselves to relax enough to get there. 8-)

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING. :ugeek:


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:10 am 
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Natural Grounding isn't bad although I don't do it consistently myself (much too busy for it ) I tend to do it to remind myself what matters most when I talk to women it also subsides the anxiety when I talk to new females I have yet to meet.

But to use it as a technique to have women magically drawn to you it is full of shit, like I said for me it just serves as a reminder nothing more.

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~There's weakness in the hearts of all humans are you afraid to acknowledge yours... ~
Mr. Todo


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:29 am 
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Here's my natural grounding: If I look at a woman, and I can read that she likes what she sees, I am instantly at ease because I know she likes me already, no matter how beautiful SHE is.

There ya go. Now give me some money. :lol:

_________________
EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING. :ugeek:


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:27 am 
Thanks Kidd for the reply.
I think I get it.

But I'm not thinking on paying any money to any "guru" or something related.

I was posting on RELM's about fake boobs, and stuff but I don't take that seriously and I cancelled my subscription there 2 days ago.

I'm not telling ALL that Marcus wrote is taken from other PUA's or naturals. As a matter of fact I liked one of his posts a lot. But I'm not gonna worship anyone. But is good to pay attention to the world outside because some times you can learn really good lessons from the people you wouldn't believe that can teach you anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:20 am 
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El-Chameleon wrote:
Thanks Kidd for the reply.
I think I get it.

But I'm not thinking on paying any money to any "guru" or something related.

I was posting on RELM's about fake boobs, and stuff but I don't take that seriously and I cancelled my subscription there 2 days ago.

I'm not telling ALL that Marcus wrote is taken from other PUA's or naturals. As a matter of fact I liked one of his posts a lot. But I'm not gonna worship anyone. But is good to pay attention to the world outside because some times you can learn really good lessons from the people you wouldn't believe that can teach you anything.
This isn't about gurus or worship (I don't believe in either anymore) it's just good to speak with someone who understands where you're coming from and give you practical solutions, then that person is a friend, not a guru.

You just have to be able to discern between truth and bullshit. ;)

_________________
"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:01 pm 
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Naled-

I had friends who could not get a date here in my country.

When they went to south America, central America and Thailand for a big trip they got laid like rock stars.

When they came back here they they were not having success again....
They were exacly at the same point they were, before they took that trip.....

I think that is a great analogy.. 8-)

Rion wrote on his profile at Thailovelinks that he has his own business and that's what he probably tells all the girls he meets in poor countries.

Since he shows up in those poor countries with 500$ boots and other expensive clothing +
always rents luxury apartments - they must think he is rich.

They don't know his business is close to bankrubsy and that he is in debts up to his ears... :lol:

_________________
"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"
Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:04 pm 
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I don't get it. When I was grounded I got attention from women, I'd get looks, I'd have women position themselves near me with their boyfriends nearby, and one woman said that she wanted to break up with her boyfriend and be with me, in front of him! Now that I've stopped I don't get that anymore. At one time I was in a 'love state' and had women looking up at me from their sandwiches in a cafe.
NG just helped me to love women and be comfortable talking to them, now that I've stopped I don't have much reason to like them or be comfortable around them.

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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:27 pm 
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Shay wrote:
When they went to south America, central America and Thailand for a big trip they got laid like rock stars.

When they came back here they they were not having success again....
They were exacly at the same point they were, before they took that trip.....
As well as the money, value thing, I feel there is another element in this as well..

In their country, their environment they are not themselves most of the time, they are aware of societal niceties, fitting in, getting nervous because that is what holds them back.. They are in the environment they are used to and so fall into familiar patterns (eg.. that phantom Approach anxiety, performance anxiety, value anxiety) all those things that hold them back. Those things that somehow they let them influence their decisions as to if the other person would be interested in them.

When they go to somewhere else where no-one knows them, they know no-one knows them (subconciously) , they relax, they have fun, they let the real them out to play. They stop thinking and enjoy.

This is part of the reason they get much better results than at home, they are more able to shrug off all those things that they let hold them back at home.

Everyone is a stranger, so there is no difference in talking to anyone in those environments, they do not stick out as much as at home, there is no difference in talking to a women or men, you do not know either of them. In a couple of days you have done loads of 'cold approaches' (cough) as they are all cold approaches, it ceases to have its fear.

For an example, look at how different women are on holiday abroad to how they are at home around friends, family, people they see all the time... They go wild.. is it not so big a push to imagine the same for men.

They know they wont see anyone they know or who will see them again, so they relax and let the real them out.


Now if they could let that happen at home also *wow* :)

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:09 pm 
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Way of a Natural wrote:
Natural Grounding isn't bad although I don't do it consistently myself (much too busy for it ) I tend to do it to remind myself what matters most when I talk to women it also subsides the anxiety when I talk to new females I have yet to meet.

But to use it as a technique to have women magically drawn to you it is full of shit, like I said for me it just serves as a reminder nothing more.
I agree, Natural grounding has helped me remember what to look for in women, what I want and value most in women. Made me more comfortable when talking to women And I know what attributes I would want in my future wife.... :)
It also helped me to not get excited from social alphas, soft porn clones, bitchy women, pradas- because they mean nothing. They are not what I value in women now, so I don't care about them.

The concept of 'relatonal mastery' is also importent:
to get off all the resources that tell you that you are a loser and that women are above you.
Wussy songs, wussy movies, MTV music videos, etc....

But NG will not make women magically drawn to you and you won't be able to turn western women into Palmys just because you are grounded. It's just a marketing scam....

_________________
"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"
Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:16 pm 
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peregrinus wrote:
As well as the money, value thing, I feel there is another element in this as well..

In their country, their environment they are not themselves most of the time, they are aware of societal niceties, fitting in, getting nervous because that is what holds them back.. They are in the environment they are used to and so fall into familiar patterns (eg.. that phantom Approach anxiety, performance anxiety, value anxiety) all those things that hold them back. Those things that somehow they let them influence their decisions as to if the other person would be interested in them.

When they go to somewhere else where no-one knows them, they know no-one knows them (subconciously) , they relax, they have fun, they let the real them out to play. They stop thinking and enjoy.

This is part of the reason they get much better results than at home, they are more able to shrug off all those things that they let hold them back at home.

Everyone is a stranger, so there is no difference in talking to anyone in those environments, they do not stick out as much as at home, there is no difference in talking to a women or men, you do not know either of them. In a couple of days you have done loads of 'cold approaches' (cough) as they are all cold approaches, it ceases to have its fear.

For an example, look at how different women are on holiday abroad to how they are at home around friends, family, people they see all the time... They go wild.. is it not so big a push to imagine the same for men.

They know they wont see anyone they know or who will see them again, so they relax and let the real them out.


Now if they could let that happen at home also *wow* :)
Yea, I agree with you But there is also the social status factor (which plays the most part).
Over there in those countries they have a different social status than they have here.
It's like when you go to the post Communistic poor countries you can get loads of marriage proposals from great looking women just because you have means...
The same in some areas within south America, central America and Thailand....

_________________
"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"
Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:38 am 
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Shay wrote:
Naled wrote:
Hmm he said that every woman has a natural character.
So we use examples of thai women to BRING OUT the natural part from the women of our own culture...
Hmm hope one day we will be able to know the real Truth though.
He said a lot of things, I really advise you to move on. There is a limit to the effect NG will have in our area code.....
Sigh, I'm tired of repeating things like this, but... there are absolutely no limits, except the limits self imposed. Just as with any other activity we do in our life, there's never a limit on the development, ability or openness you can reach regarding that activity... It doesn't matter if you've been practicing three years or your whole life, there's always more for those who keep practicing.

_________________
Let the angel that you are embrace with love and tame the demon that you are, and let the demon that you are kick your angel's ass, so he awakens.


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:50 am 
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Morgul wrote:
Sigh, I'm tired of repeating things like this, but... there are absolutely no limits, except the limits self imposed. Just as with any other activity we do in our life, there's never a limit on the development, ability or openness you can reach regarding that activity... It doesn't matter if you've been practicing three years or your whole life, there's always more for those who keep practicing.
Morgul,

There is something I wanted to tell you but I didn't so far. I really like your posts and after talking to you on facebook I really like you as a person too. You have great attributes and
you are a really good man. So please don't take this the wrong way or get offended just take this as something to think about and if you don't agree with me that's also cool.

I feel as if you say a lot of things which maybe true, but you don't have any concrete success to back it up. You don't have enough concrete success with women to back up the fact that natural grounding really does miracles in the west or maybe you did but you didn't share it so I would not know....

Now there is something to remember:
There is always a geography factor. For example: in the areas that Me and Naled live there is not much natural energy. So even if I show up with tons of 'Palmy energy' there is only a limited effect on what it can do, cause most women won't 'pick up' the energy, they are just too closed off. When I was in Hong Kong for example women picked up my energy very fast cause they are much more feminine and open, same for 'Jari the shaman' who lives in Finland where the women are much more sensative and open to energies (He said so himself, it's not just something I'm making up). Even Etienne told me on facebook once (and I can show you):
"In Spain, many 25+ women are GREAT, but such women are more rare in Canada, unless you go for non-french-or-english speaking Mexicans like I do :P "
With all of his chakras work and natural grounding he stills targets the non-french-or-english speaking women because for him the local women are not feminine enough and so don't pick up his energy (he lives in Montreal).

Now in regards to the subject:
In my area some women are more feminine then others but they are not 'Palmys' they just aren't. They grow up too different....And they have social shells that are hard to penetrate.
Now they may show more of their feminine side once you get to know them a bit better and sometimes they will even show some of it during the first interaction But it takes more then 'natural grounding' to make it happen. They open up to men who have a strong 'edge'
and that can't be achieved with natural grounding alone.

Morgul, I often feel that you are dreaming too much and not 'down to earth'. Like you think we live in a perfect world that is just honey and roses. You got to wake up man, you have to embrace your 'dark side' - when I say 'dark side' I don't mean as in something bad- it's not about being a jerk or a bad boy- But you need to get in touch with your 'Edge'. Women will not go with a feminine man, they want a man with a strong edge and that's why they often fall for the bad boys and jerks. Bad boys and Jerks have a strong 'edge' and guys like Corry and David X talk about it and explain what it is.....

Also, women are not angels. If you ever hear some women talking they are often worse then men. They lie, manipulate, etc..
I have had women who seemed 'very sweet' and ended up manipulating me.

Unless you show me some concrete results you had with women I won't beleive you or that natural grounding is a magic pill. And I don't see 'success' as: women were smiling at me or looking at me. It may be a good start but it's not real success.....

_________________
"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"
Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:49 am 
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Shay wrote:
Unless you show me some concrete results you had with women I won't beleive you or that natural grounding by itself is a magic pill. And I don't see 'success' as: women were smiling at me or looking at me. It may be a good start but it's not real success.....

Amen!!!

This is the bullshit zan is feeding his guys as well: it's enough to have just a smile from her and making her day, because that is success.


I believe 'success' in that regard is when she wants you and proves it!!.

_________________
"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:14 am 
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Thank you Shay, I really appreciate your honesty.

I won't say much more than what I've already shared. I've never liked bragging.

But I feel some of my improvements can be considered as non important for some of you. I don't care of your point of view, what matters to me is mine.

I know how much I've suffered, I know where I've been, drowning in tears considering hopeless loneliness as my reality and future, and I've also not shared that very much with you. Only I know how much I've improved, and I have absolute unwillingness to say something untrue to me, unless it's an affirmation and I could point it anytime.

I've suffered to view women differently from all my male friends since I recall. I've suffered for not having people with whom I could share my feelings without being considered from another planet.

And you know what? It is ALL being worthy. I still would never change my life, my past, my experiences, my personality, my abilities, with any other's one. I know what I saw as deficiencies are in fact my most precious gifts. And I know other people still can see those parts of me as deficiencies. Exactly the people that don't have them, never had them, and therefore have absolutely no idea what they are... what a coincidence. Should I trust those opinions? Or the opinions from people who have lived it, and even are still living it? In fact none, I should always trust me first.

The only thing I have to do is accept it all. It's part of my path. So thank you for your opinion. As you say, I'm going to keep embracing both sides of me, light and dark. I've never stopped doing so.

Sometimes I wish I could put other people who want proof in my own skin. Show them where I was, and what it is like to be me now. Those would never again judge me from what they now see.

Thank you again, Shay. I've grown once again, I always do. And I hope you can see beyond your own mind, you seem to be wanting that too much time, I wish you can have the courage to drop it and let it rejuvenate.

I'm really tired of repeating things you should be aware of. There's no point in trying to make you more aware from pointing to you things you believe, because you don't see the beliefs in you, you don't take ownership of them, you treat them as empty conversation topics.

Maybe I should consider starting all my sentences with "to me", "for me", "what I have", "what I do", "how it works for me", "what it does to me", "what I find"... and a big etc. Letting you know THAT, IS, MY, REALITY. Or just stop trying to help you, and keep taking from you, because I'm learning from you... but it doesn't feel right to not give back...

_________________
Let the angel that you are embrace with love and tame the demon that you are, and let the demon that you are kick your angel's ass, so he awakens.


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 Post subject: Re: Natural Grounding
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:49 am 
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Morgul wrote:
Thank you Shay, I really appreciate your honesty.

I won't say much more than what I've already shared. I've never liked bragging.

But I feel some of my improvements can be considered as non important for some of you. I don't care of your point of view, what matters to me is mine.

I know how much I've suffered, I know where I've been, drowning in tears considering hopeless loneliness as my reality and future, and I've also not shared that very much with you. Only I know how much I've improved, and I have absolute unwillingness to say something untrue to me, unless it's an affirmation and I could point it anytime.

I've suffered to view women differently from all my male friends since I recall. I've suffered for not having people with whom I could share my feelings without being considered from another planet.

And you know what? It is ALL being worthy. I still would never change my life, my past, my experiences, my personality, my abilities, with any other's one. I know what I saw as deficiencies are in fact my most precious gifts. And I know other people still can see those parts of me as deficiencies. Exactly the people that don't have them, never had them, and therefore have absolutely no idea what they are... what a coincidence. Should I trust those opinions? Or the opinions from people who have lived it, and even are still living it? In fact none, I should always trust me first.

The only thing I have to do is accept it all. It's part of my path. So thank you for your opinion. As you say, I'm going to keep embracing both sides of me, light and dark. I've never stopped doing so.

Sometimes I wish I could put other people who want proof in my own skin. Show them where I was, and what it is like to be me now. Those would never again judge me from what they now see.

Thank you again, Shay. I've grown once again, I always do. And I hope you can see beyond your own mind, you seem to be wanting that too much time, I wish you can have the courage to drop it and let it rejuvenate.

I'm really tired of repeating things you should be aware of. There's no point in trying to make you more aware from pointing to you things you believe, because you don't see the beliefs in you, you don't take ownership of them, you treat them as empty conversation topics.

Maybe I should consider starting all my sentences with "to me", "for me", "what I have", "what I do", "how it works for me", "what it does to me", "what I find"... and a big etc. Letting you know THAT, IS, MY, REALITY. Or just stop trying to help you, and keep taking from you, because I'm learning from you... but it doesn't feel right to not give back...
Morgul I have learned a lot from you and I still do... ;)

I'm not telling you how to feel or what to think. Beleive me I had a lot of shit in my life too, more then you can imagine. I'm sure your life was not easy but beleive me you Do Not want to be in my skin and go through what I went through in my life.

Look, we all have different goals\things that we want. We all have a different personality, different desires and goals.

For you it may be enough to get X success but for me it just isn't.

Just an example: some guys want to be playboys and can't give that up, I don't want that
but I do want more success in this field.

So I appreciate your advise but I'm not going to become you or give up what I want...
Also things and goals change all the time- maybe next month I'll wake up and decide I want to be a monk. Who knows? :D

But right now I'm going towards what I want Now and don't try to make me think like you or be you, which is what I feel you are trying to do.
I don't need any salvation and I won't give up what I want just because you think I should...

_________________
"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"
Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


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