Natural Freedom

True true, I remember when I broke with a girl two years ago I was not really devastated but angry. I turned that anger into something productive and started working out like madman, cut off contact withmost of friends and spent a lot of time alone (funny to see that written here and seeing my first posts on the forum, I lost myself guys...). The amount of jocking i used to get was huuuge, straight up sex propositions etc. all that doing nothing for anyone else but myself. there's more to that,Peregrinus knows what. Also I was very, very quiet at that time. I'm the dude on top:

that's after 5 months of training.
the sad part is how much I deteriorated over the time -mentally and physically. The worst part is that when I joined the forums and read it, I was not really believing it, despite I lived that before. At least i got good reference point and I know I can get there back again. "Built it and they will come"

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Laying on the floor in a pool of blood and cum
My demons lay beside as I kiss them one by one
Then on that day I met a force that nothing will compare
I was born the son of evil when I fuck the devil there!

Sorry for OT but I just can't stop laughing

yeah I did the same after I read it lol

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Laying on the floor in a pool of blood and cum
My demons lay beside as I kiss them one by one
Then on that day I met a force that nothing will compare
I was born the son of evil when I fuck the devil there!

@fufe

I've posted this link a couple of times before: http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/10/04/women-sex/

Another one about a real life female to male transgender describing the experience (i'll take this one over a greek myth anyday): http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... transcript

Also someone mentioned transmutation of sexual energy and how men like Tesla got ahead with it. If women are mostly not getting what they want, where is all that sexual energy (ten times that of men?) going? Into shopping and nagging?

Whoa, wait a minute.

If this is a conversation about women walking around the world with the same desire to fuck for the sake of fucking like a man does- You better believe I would say it's ridiculous too.

The dynamic between you, individually, and one who wants sex with you in relationship more than you want it with her (And yes, assuming the girl that is your type etc) is an entirely different animal. That does not disregard the very different things she may get out of sex or her relationship to the sex than yours as a male animal.

I know everyone is wired differently, but I personally could not fathom this w out having done a lot of work on my own attachments around sex, sex drive and so on

Also whether it is literally more, or percentages or whatever is totally irrelevant what is most relevant is the destruction of the dynamic where it's all about you Trying to get all the time where she is intended more than enough for it to be a non-issue for all I care about is how people are experiencing their life.

Hope this makes sense with the massive amount of Siri related typos going down

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

Also, the context for 100 years ago is almost impossible for a guy today to fathom. Were most likely busting your ass all day and chances are pretty good you were doing something that community really needed as a service.

Didn't have even a fraction of the luxury time, or things just automatically handled, that we do now.

Now in a world where there is an enormous amount of men walking around without a strong purpose, Probably not a kind of deep spiritually fulfilling value from the work they do, in a hyper sexualized environment, with Internet porn TV and stupid bullshit all around. Plus, being raised in that world. It's not hard for me to imagine that things were massively massively different before in terms of this conversation, except for the elite aristocrats or whomever, hah

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

Hmmm, I'm going to have to reflect on this one and see If I understand

Super powerful statement! I see where I am doing this a lot -- it is like a blind spot that has the potential to be the whole windshield.

Also interesting in AHK article, it would seem self obvious- I know I am not talking about a woman biologically wanting sex for sex sake but of a dynamic where, what Kidd said as need and what gets addressed being with you, drastically changes that playing field, and is what my own experience part relates to.

But yeah - I can see how "hey guys, women are walking around wanting to screw something just as badly as you!" can easily be thrown out as a sales tactic for things like stupid pua shit

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

First off - great thread. I second the call for treasure chest.
Right on - I've had this feeling multiple times as well. I once had a girl literally get to the point where her vision disappeared (like it does when you are about to pass out) while having sex with her.

But man, does it take a fucking lot of energy to make love for long enough with that kind of intensity. I can't do that kind of thing more than 3, maybe 4 times a week otherwise I'm just exhausted and can't get anything done at work or training...

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"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho

Better fucking believe this. I agree that a fundamental point is being missed here, and I made it previously: Put it this way: would you get a boner for a woman with her ass hanging out of her shorts in a shopping mall, if your boner depended on you somehow finding out that she was totally secure in herself and did not feel any need for attention? (incidentally, if this were the case, look at the paradox she would have created for herself, and then RE-reverse the scenario).

Alternatively, what if every woman on the planet had a deformed face and were horribly out of shape? Would your sex drive then be an issue? Or any man's for that matter? Don't laugh, because it is my estimation that by and large, THIS IS THE EQUIVALENT OF WOMAN'S EXPERIENCE WITH MEN IN THE 21st CENTURY!

and from Kidd!!: Emphasis mine.

Also, 'Grinus had a post about women getting orgasms from things OTHER than a man. I freely admit that I have never experienced this (consciously anyway), but the others should read this thread if they haven't already: http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... 340#p11939; it certainly seems conceivable to me (and maybe explains why they can have sex with a man they are unattracted to but get other value from, thereby answering the question "where does their libido go?" in a little more detail. Incidentally, men have the power to do this too, they just lack the will. For more info on this, look up Napoleon Hill/sex transmutation).....

.....and this is what I have always done in between those 'rare but enlightening experiences' - with astonishing results. Some of you guys seem to be summarily dismissing this concept, but have you actually tried it?

Anyway: we are saying that their sexual CAPACITY is greater than a man's. We are NOT saying that it is TRIGGERED like a man's......

roark out.

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"

We are pleased to announce that this is an example of "projection" on roark's part.

[Edit/addition: Which got me thinking: if the concept "we are saying that their sexual CAPACITY is greater than a man's. We are NOT saying that it is TRIGGERED like a man's....." needed to be clarified, this also indicates projection: projection of our sexual nature onto women. THEY ARE NOT LIKE US. WHY WOULD THEY BE? This accounts for why they are so incomprehensible to a steak eater: simple projection.]

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"

Ever thought about what this would be like, especially if they kept hitting on you every time you were at a bus stop, browsing in an electronics store, having a beer, lining up in a bank, chilling with your peeps in a mall (and wouldn't your other fed up male friends eventually start giving her grief too?), everywhere?

Sometimes i'm not surprised they are so bitchy, but i'll stop now before I turn this into a pirate boat .

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"

Well even in a city full of let say, mr badass dream indifferent right mindset guys, they'll never have the fuck them all, as much and as quickly as possible simply for the sake of fucking wiring like a guy has -- just on the biology level. Sex as the end goal in and of itself. Our 'purpose' is essentially done after the sex act is finished. I travel a lot and believe me, if the women are not really happening in terms of their sexual attractiveness, dress terribly, etc. etc. in the area, if that's what's there, the guys are all still going to bang them and be driven to bang them.." because you know what causes sexual thoughts? (drumroll) having a dick" ( Bill Hicks )

Not to take away from the other points, the whole level the playing field thing -- I just feel that something that is really two separate conversations often gets mixed up in this area as though talking about the same thing. The one seems so self obvious to me and that parody video on ahk article does make the point, that it almost seems weird that it's a convo. However the relationship(s) dynamic of her craving you sexually, genuinely wanting it and sometimes more than you do (at least energy/logistic wise etc) is quite real, as is the end of the horrible trying-to-get, way too overt sex as currency BS that too many live. They'll always still be female and have the female relationship to sex somewhere on that spectrum.

Of course for me it always comes back to -- are you talking about something theoretically or something that will directly affect your experience of life and that is within your means to do something about - some parts of this very much fall into that category, so I would spend the time there!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

I get what you're saying about the 2 convos issue. That's why I said "NOT saying that it is TRIGGERED like a man's.....". I was actually thinking that this should have been clarified further to mean not triggered, not graduated (ie a graph showing a woman's sexual arousal level over time and circumstance, when in the presence of the right man, would probably be FAR more complex than the one for a man ), etc etc. Totally agree. In fact, one of the many diamonds in the rough that I found during my perusal of PUA theory was that a man's sexual arousal is like an on/off switch (and we know what triggers the 'off' state), where a woman's is like a dimmer switch, and I find even this to be a gross oversimplification, based on my experiences. I agree totally with the different biology issue.

But I think this needs a little going into, 'cause I don't think it's quite that simple: In my opinion this effect is actually exaggerated by a false component of the male sex drive that is introduced by social programming that makes them believe that successfully seducing and banging chicks is the only indicator & purpose of masculinity. So to be accurate to the biology issue, i'd say we'd have to throw many of these cases out, as being somewhat corrupted.

And yet still I agree with you on the biology bit, as nothing i've said disproves that, but I think there's a little more to this: I have myself been in those situations before, and indeed I noticed myself getting massive boners by women that I would not have given the time of day for in my normal environment (and having this effect increased the longer I stay in that "desert"). BUT:

I also noticed that, apart from the cases that could be accounted for by my 'fraudulently exaggerrated socially programmed sex drive', many of the women arousing me, while not good looking by society's standards, were EMANATING SEXUALITY, they were still SEXUALLY APPEALING (just not in a good looks/nice ass way). And not all of them were nubile (great tits or ass despite a dog food face) either. But this is key: no totally unattractive (no sexual appeal whatsoever) woman, even in these environments, have ever attracted me, and I suspect (this could never be proven, I admit, because it's an extremity, and I freely admit I may be splitting hairs at this point) that even if I were stranded with ONE unappealing-on-all-levels woman, I would not be able to be aroused by her, even over time. Even if I were, I believe it would be due to some sexually appealing quality she had hidden or only showing in a miniscule way, that I could not see before my abundance was taken from me. ie as scarcity grows, I start to see what abundance made me take for granted. Could what I am describing be thought of as a sort of clearing away of the illusion in the absence of the availability of the ones who meet my programmed criteria? Who knows?

What further convinces me of this is two sisters that I run into in a shop that I frequent. One is fairly pretty, and with THE MOST ROCKIN' BODY I HAVE EVER SEEN. And she reaaaally accentuates it (short pants, tight shirt). She is also sexual beyond her body, ie something within her causes what I refer to as a 'ripening effect on her body' - I can't describe it beyond something that makes it seem like an inner sexuality is just trying to BURST out of her body. The other is slightly overweight, and her face, while not hideous, is faaaar from pretty. I chat casually with them when I see them (read: tease the fuck out of them - and they both have attitude, but in a totally cool way). The other day, I ran into the unattractive one, and we chatted as usual. But halfway through, I realised that I didn't just like her on a personality level, but actually wanted to fuck her far more than her sister. [At this point, 'Grinus steps in and says "Mirror", and steps back out ]. While we chatted, I started looking into this, and realised that this so-called 'ripening effect' was even more potent with her! Seriously, I wanted to mangle her body in the most delicious ways! It's not personality augmentation either, as her sis (good looking one) is as cool in my opinion as she is (admittedly neither of them seem particularily deep, but this too is on equal levels). Edit: Also, I don't think it was scarcity - I am pretty sure I ran into the usual number of "hot chicks" that day.

To reiterate, I don't disagree with what you posted, just expanding on some omissions.

And yes - my drives ARE different to most men, making what I say irrelevant for almost everybody - it always has been (even in my hormonal teens and '20's) very easy for me to get turned off PHYSICALLY by an attractive woman with an awful personality (as an example one chick, frustrated with my continued rebuttal of her advances, started giving me a handjob (I was around 23) and I couldn't get it up - I hated her guts; this woman was a real cunt. This also tells me that the situation with the sisters above is not entirely due to my growing maturity). But I think it does provide some added perspective in the broader picture.

Sorry about the long post and hair splitting....

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"

Ugh...I don't even have the energy to dispute you, Flow. Everything will be what you believe it to be.

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING.

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!

Sure you don't mean me ? I think I rode my bike over my cliff in my last post .

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

"Temet Nosce"

So much projection in this thread.

Also, this seems to be hitting nerves with several people, reading posts.. Which I consider a good thing.

Gems scattered around in plain sight, some being accepted as such, some being dismissed.

roark:
Flow: hmmmm

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

Yup

In this thread: http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... 3566#p3566 I discussed this a bit. Nice.

Interesting moment roark Indeed it is.

Now to decide on what that point is.

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

Well, for what it's worth - I don't think any of this is a limitation ie, the woman will never want you more than want them, that this is any excuse that means your experience of life can't be exactly what you have described - in terms of their relationship to sex with YOU, how much they want it, and what the dynamic is.

The short version would be that I think women have a different relationship to sex than men, at the most animal level -- it's hard for me to imagine they have the same 'screw everything that moves' type energy with the same quality that men, but, even if I am completely, 100% wrong, which I could be - I don't think this needs to enter ones mind as a limitation in the first place, that it has no bearing as a limitation from creating a life as you are describing. If it's totally 'right' or totally 'wrong' ie there were some way to really prove it in a lab, it doesnt matter. It's theoretical/intellectual information, yours is from *experience.* If you walk around the world with the belief/knowledge that you have the traits that are capable of triggering that in a woman, and that more than enough women that you could possibly, POSSIBLY deal with are open, and your experience of life is such, who cares about much else? Having been on that end of it a small handful of times, why would I look to external sources of information to validate/invalidate it?

It's like when guys use "but I have this sex drive" as an excuse to be attached, do all the wrong things - basically, to not do the work to be the master vs slave to it. Maybe there are scientific facts and terms and biology that they can throw at you to say "yeah man, but I HAVE to be sex-obsessed" - but it's irrelevant because you know from experience that, you can experience something different.

A red herring of sorts - if all of that is 'scientifically provable' true or false- does it change anything about your direct experience of life, what you KNOW you can create, the steps you have laid out to create it and achieving the results? IE, there are so many nuanes and variables with who you are as a man at the core of it, it's not data like 'this means you CANT have xyz' in the same way as "no man, don't mix those two pure bottles of chemical together, because they WILL explode and kill you" type shit, hah.

That said, i'm more than open to having any/all of anything I said completely blown apart so point away to anything in either direction

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4

OK ok - wheels turning, thanks man

Here's a personal centerpiece of the thing for me:
There's more than enough in the whole sexuality/biology thing that you can turn to as a source of POWER and confidence as a man
There are also some aspects of it that you can interpret from a place of WEAKNESS and limitation.
The x factor is you. It's quite zen really.

Whether there is some scientific-journal validity to either, the choice is yours and the effect will be 100% directly verifiable through experience!

Also just as an aside, what you have described about personality/sexual attractiveness for you, even to where it becomes a physical impossibility - I can deeply relate man. There's a bit of irony in me saying some of the things as I am picky, like even my physiology is, haha, and I have literally turned down sex before for such reasons - but I still have an awareness of, lets call it a raw energy, that's there in the system that has a 'put your dick in something, anything!' type of quality to it, it just by no means even needs to come close to running the show and can be channeled all sorts of more useful ways.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXz8xMaJi4