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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:38 am 
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I'm sure you'll enjoy this article. Seems related to recent discussions.
Deepl translated from : http://cequiest.over-blog.com/article-u ... 99264.html


U.G Krishnamurti, the destroyer, the Attila of illusion.

Praise for UG:
I warmly recommend it, at least if you like shots. Because, at least, he goes to the end of the void, to the end of nothing. And his emptiness is not clean, his nothing is not elegant. He liquidates, he throws away the whole cycle, real "sales of sales". With him, no selective shopping: everything must disappear!

Summary of a book about UG:
The fly in the ointment
or the frog that wants to be as big as the ox
J. M. Terdjman
These pages are a challenge, a challenge to the deepest, most absolute belief in every man, the idea he has of himself... the sense of ego.
The sense of the ego, by its mere "imperial" presence ("An empire within an empire" says Spinoza) makes life an exhausting march.
The experience of liberation is nothing other than the annihilation of the particular mental structure that seeks this same liberation: it is an experience that cannot take place, that is impossible by definition.
This book challenges the very core of our individual consciousness, and the basis of our deepest convictions.
The more we doubt everything, the more sure we are that we exist.
This book questions the certainty of individual existence, in the way it is usually conceived, and puts nothing in its place. This book does not replace anything, it only describes the mechanism of a reflection that deceives itself, AND THAT CANNOT, BUT CANNOT DO OTHERWISE. We are this reflection.

ONLY A FALSE PROBLEM.
Things are not done because we want them, but rather we want them because the necessary forces are there.
We "know" that we exist. Therein lies the (false) problem: the reflection of consciousness that calls itself "self-knowledge" or "sense of self", or ego, believes that it is the origin of "its" actions, whereas it is only the reflection of the forces at work. These forces are impersonal, but the reflection is personalized, or rather, it personalizes itself by apprehending itself, and cannot do otherwise. Personalization is the condition of self-awareness.
False problem, because it does not exist at the level of the acting forces themselves. It exists only at the level of the reflection of consciousness which conceives itself, which knows that it exists; this reflection is you, it is me.
The reflection of the subjective knowledge, which is reinforced by conceiving it (this problem) cannot do anything: it arrives at the end of the chains of causes, IT CANNOT ACT ON THEM.
The mental mechanisms that gave birth to it in the first place are too powerful, it is an UNDESIRABLE SECONDARY EFFECT. So, this reflection that believes itself to exist will imagine that it serves a purpose. To what end? It is there to realize itself. To realize an ideal, values (moral, religious, aesthetic, etc.), happiness, to find God, liberation, knowledge", a better society...
The goal doesn't matter. Any one of them will do. What matters is to have a problem; then the ego is comforted, it exists for something. Doubt*, that awful thing, that terrifying flicker on the edge of nothingness, is gone forever. We are launched for life.
*
Not doubt about the knowledge one has (including the subject's knowledge of itself), but the questioning of the subject, even as an illusion caused by an evil genius, which Descartes never really did. Instead, he usually used the uncertainty of knowledge to establish the certainty of the ego. In a word, he correctly described the ego's awareness of itself.

CONSCIOUSNESS: IT IS NOT WHAT WE THINK IT IS (THERE IS NEITHER CONSCIOUSNESS NOR A THINKING SUBJECT)
The thinking subject, that source of ontology for philosophers and of dignity for humanists, does not exist.

CONSCIOUSNESS: A BY-PRODUCT OF MEMORY
Consciousness is a resonance, an echo, a reverberation of certain perceptions on themselves. In fact, it is only a by-product of memory.

Mechanism:
1. Awareness
A perception is simply the impact of forces of nature: both the "outside world" and the "individual human body". This impact leaves a trace in the baby's nervous system, in the form of a vibration, chemical or electrical transformation, or other, let's take the image of a FOUND for example. [Enéagram : neural map -> each information is stored in a unique network of neurons, traced in the brain like a path in the bush. Its maintenance consists in regularly passing nerve impulses through it].

Memory: All the grooves dug by the repetition. This groove will channel new sensations of the same order. (There is a force that attracts one to the other).
When a new sensation is channeled towards a pre-existing groove, a new situation is created: the energy inherent in the sensation is no longer absorbed to dig a new groove. This non-absorbed energy will bounce off the pre-existing groove which channels it, it will form a kind of echo, a resonance of this groove in front of or above it. It will reflect in the second degree what the groove already expresses in the first degree.
This groove is called a "general idea", an idea of hot, cold, hunger, mother's milk, etc. The reflection or reverberation of this general idea, which, in a way, resonates on itself, is what we call "being conscious of" (of milk, of mom, of being hot or cold, etc.).
CONSCIOUSNESS IS NOTHING ELSE THAN THE REVERBERATION, THE RESONANCE OF A MENTAL FACT ON ITSELF. A MENTAL FACT IS NOTHING ELSE THAN A SPECIFIC STATE OF THE NERVOUS MATERIAL, a vibration that resonates and echoes on itself

THERE IS CONSCIOUSNESS ONLY IF THIS FURROW IS ALREADY DUG, WHICH MEANS: THERE IS KNOWLEDGE ONLY OF THE PAST, OF THE DEJA VU.
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KNOW SOMETHING NEW. To know something is only to identify it with what already exists as general idea(s). "To know" is in fact only "to re-know".

2. Thinking subject

These mental facts that echo on themselves will create a new groove that will not express the characteristics of the first sensations (milk, hot...), but the characteristic of resonance itself, of echo of something else. In the same way that the idea of milk no longer expresses the specificity of this milk or that milk, the new groove that has been dug no longer expresses the specificity of this echo here or that echo there. It becomes a general idea of resonance, of echo, that is, of consciousness.
The ideas of milk,... reflect on themselves, the idea of consciousness too. The only difference is that the general ideas are different from each other and are linked to distinct, differentiated sensations. This one on the other hand (that of the consciousness) automatically accompanies all these separate sensations, it cannot be identified and therefore limited, to any of them specifically.
The thinking I is created simultaneously with the general thoughts or ideas.

THE "I": A GENERAL IDEA THAT IS THOUGHT, A SIMPLE FACT OF MEMORY, A BURDEN OF THE PAST.
The self-conscious thinking subject arrives at the end of what is called the thinking process, which is nothing other than the direct activity of the specific sensations that form what is inaccurately called the "human mind.
If everything stopped there, there would be no problem of the thinking subject, no problem of the illusion of the ego. We would conceive of the ego, the thinking subject, the thought process, etc. as a general idea, useful but limited, a convenient symbol but nothing else. But this general idea, which does not relate to any specific sensation - since it is an INEVITABLE characteristic of ALL mental facts which resonate upon themselves*, a general idea which comes into existence by reflecting upon itself, thereby becoming conscious of itself, knows neither its origin nor its limits. It does not know that it comes AFTER the other mental facts and, accompanying them all, sees only their specificity, and its own universality.
* Not from others, of course. Why do some mental facts echo and not others? I don't know.
This general idea of reflexivity inherent in particular ideas, which resonates on itself and becomes conscious of itself but knows neither its origin nor its limits, becomes the absolute illusion of the ego. It arrogates to itself the place of honor, it decides that it comes BEFORE the other mental facts, that it controls them, that it controls itself. Ignoring its origin, it conceives itself as self-created, as eternal, as an absolute center of thought and existence.
Reflected knowledge (i.e. "I know, and I know that I know") IS NEVER ANYTHING BUT KNOWLEDGE OF GENERAL IDEAS, i.e. classification of the past. To know oneself (to know that I exist) is only a disembodied general idea, preserved from the past, a simple fact of memory which takes itself for a center of consciousness, of decision, of action, of life.

TWO LEVELS OF CONSCIOUSNESS

Direct awareness: the body's immediate response to stimuli from the outside world or from itself. (There is no reflective awareness of actions).

Reflective consciousness: the ego - that is, me, you - exists. I exist. I see a mountain and I know that I see it, and therefore, that I exist. Normally, the meaning of the word "consciousness" is limited to this case: I know that I exist, and it is because I know that I exist that I can "be aware" of the mountain. Nothing could be further from the truth. This implies that the reflected consciousness can exist in itself and by itself, and that it is the consciousness that is at the origin of the "phenomenon of consciousness", that it is the consciousness that "projects" itself onto the mountain. THIS IS SOMETHING COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE. The reflected consciousness can only exist if there is already a direct consciousness that will echo and reflect on itself. I must first see the mountain - that is to say, there must be an interaction between the mountain and my nervous system - so that I can know that I am seeing the mountain, and thus become aware of my own existence.
All the movements of the body, within (mental facts or biological or physiological transformations) or in relation to the external world (movements of the body) participate in the first level of consciousness. Therefore, the MIND DOES NOT CONTROL THE BODY (because then, the reflected consciousness would precede the direct consciousness and would be the cause). We have here one unity, one physical-mind organism, and not two realities (the "unconscious" body and the "conscious" mind). The mind is the body, and vice versa.

THE END WANTS TO COME AT THE BEGINNING (the cart before the horse) or THE PUPPET WANTS TO BE FREE (puppet aware of itself, but not of the strings that control it)

What we think will happen first actually happens at the end of the process. Life is not a new slate, a virgin land that is there waiting for the almighty "I" to come and manifest and realize itself. Everything is already there, the whole machinery (of the outer world and of the body in this outer world) works automatically; it is only because of this state of affairs that an individual and personal centre of consciousness can come into being. It is conscious only of itself, it does not know where it comes from, nor what causes it, nor what its true essence is (to be the reflection of something else, and to be only that). The ego looks at itself, and does not know that it has reached the end of the chain of causes. On the contrary, it wants to go forward, it wants to "realize" itself, it sets goals, values, ideals, it invents a meaning to life, that is, it gives itself a sacred meaning and mission in life. Not knowing that it is coming to an end, the ego perceives itself as being at the beginning of everything, it perceives itself as the cause of itself (a miracle in nature); it will desperately seek to last and to become something, to reinforce its substance and to confirm its existence. He will set ideals for himself to reach and serve, he will erect models to imitate, he will imagine heroic deeds to accomplish: anything, as long as he is comforted in his existence and reassured of his reason for being. He knows that he exists, but he does not know why, nor where he comes from, nor what causes him. He does not know that his existence is already determined and that there is nothing to be done. I DO NOT NEED TO ACT, BECAUSE I, BY THE VERY FACT OF EXISTING AND BEING CONSCIOUS OF ITSELF, IS THE RESULT OF FORCES OVER WHICH IT HAS AND CAN HAVE NO CONTROL. WHAT IS IN FACT ONLY AN INERT AND PASSIVE DEAD END OF THE FUNCTIONING OF THE SENSES IS CONCEIVED AS A TRIUMPHAL WAY TO THE FUTURE, AND SEES ITSELF AS THE LOCOMOTIVE OF THE WHOLE.

Like a puppet that is aware of itself, but not of the strings that animate it, the ego thinks it is free to go here or there. It tries to give a meaning to its movements, while everything is decided elsewhere. It does not even realize that it is only conscious of itself, that is to say that it exists only insofar as the threads pull it this way and that.
The ego, that personalized unit of consciousness, does not know what to do with itself and cannot do anything about it. It is full of anguish, it suffers. It not only wants to have ideals and goals to achieve, but above all it wants to be liberated from the painful situation in which it finds itself, it "aspires to liberation". He can try anything he wants, nothing is accomplished, nothing is resolved. The only sense of progress comes from a hardening, a fossilization, of illusions and beliefs. The only relief comes from biological exhaustion and death. Meanwhile, life goes on, and the puppet swings this way and that, its physical movements and moods and other impulses entirely controlled by the strings pulled from elsewhere.
IT'S GRAVITY THAT DOES IT ALL
-->Spinoza's Nature in Action: natural forces that are subject to the laws of nature (mechanical, biological, chemical, electromagnetic forces)...
It is time to put man, and the psychology of man, back into nature.
A man who thinks and acts and a torrent that runs down the mountain are the same thing. There is a difference in degree of complexity, there are different forces at work, there is no essential difference.

1. The forces of nature -> 2. In the brain these forces make grooves -> 3. The mechanisms of reflection create consciousness -> 4. The whole forms self-awareness: the human mind.

FREE WILL: AN ILLUSION
Free will is the reflection in the mirror that would like to control the object of which it is a reflection. It is an impossibility. The belief in free will comes from the fact that we are aware of our desires and conceptions (at the level of reflected consciousness), but we are unaware of their causes and origins (which exist at the primary level of direct consciousness). Decision is simply being aware of either a force that drives us, or an obvious (rational or not) fact that imposes itself.

THE TRIUMPH OF MATTER OVER MIND: ANOTHER ILLUSION
Mind (what we call mind in this place called a human being) is simply matter becoming aware of its own existence through its changes and interactions with itself.
Self-awareness in the individual is a reflection of these changes in matter, not their cause - even though this reflection is parallel and synchronized with these changes. The mind can no more control matter than a hammer can shape an idea, or control it, or an idea can lift a hammer

THE RIVER IS A RIVER BECAUSE ITS WATERS FLOW OR: THE DESIRE OF MAN IS THE ESSENCE OF MAN (IDENTIFICATION AND WILL TO POWER)

The ego exists as a reflection in a mirror. IT CAN ONLY BE WHAT IT REFLECTS, NEITHER MORE NOR LESS. And of course, it cannot control what it is a reflection of.
The ego is a reflection of what? It is the echo and the reflected general idea of desires, fears, conditionings, habits, memories, emotions, in a word of all mental facts. Without them there is no ego, no sense of the autonomous individual. If we remove the objects, the reflection disappears. The ego cannot exist outside of the mental facts of which it is the echo; the ego is fear, emotion, memory, etc., it does not have them, it does not experience them: it is the mental facts themselves that re-cognize themselves and become conscious of themselves. (…)
In reality, the ego never ceases to exist, except at death. Like any idea, it wants to persevere in its being, it has in itself the necessary energy to continue to exist.
The I cannot want its end, it can only continue to want to be. Is it above all suffering (that is, suffering reflected on itself)? It will desire the end of suffering, but not its own (of end).
My existence may be made of joy or indifference rather than suffering. But this depends on external factors or internal dispositions over which the ego can do nothing, since it is only the reflection.
To persevere in its existence, that is, to continue to think itself (it is capable of nothing else, since its essence is to be a reflection of something else), the I attaches itself and identifies with the dominant emotion of the moment. ANYTHING can do the trick: joy, suffering, indifference, desire, hate. In any case, the I has no choice, it cannot decide what it will be the reflection of: it is what they are now, it will become what they will be in a moment.
It is the chain of causes (including, for example, the chemical or electrical processes at work in a human brain) that "decides" what they are and what they will become. It is the force of desire - or any other emotion - that triggers action or non-action. The I is merely reflecting the unfolding of the play, but it believes it is at the helm, the sovereign master. It believes that it has the responsibility and power to "change things", solve problems, etc. It believes that it must intervene to make things happen. He believes that he must intervene to stop suffering, for example, when HE IS IT.
Apart from the heroin, what to do? One might not so much accept the suffering (difficult to do so wholeheartedly unless one is a convinced masochist), but rather accept the fact that one is suffering at this very moment, that one exists as suffering, and that everything will continue as it is until external factors or internal dispositions change.
The ego appropriates the being and the energy of what it is only the reflection of. THE EGO WANTS TO EXIST, SO IT WILL IDENTIFY ITSELF. To have black or white skin, to be programmed by a specific cultural tradition is not a fiction of course. The fiction is the identification of nothing (the ego) with this conditioning.

THE WILL TO POWER FORMS THE ESSENCE OF EVERY PLACE IN NATURE.
Physical and biological forces have to express themselves (gravity does everything), the ego will take hold of them. [No matter what the content, the type of thoughts it will identify with (egoism, altruism...)].

MAN IS NOT WHAT HE THINKS HE IS (I)
The ego does not add anything to the mirror or the reflected object; IT IS WHAT IT IS, IT CANNOT CHANGE IT OR TRANSFORM ITSELF.
The sense of ego - this "intuition" that I have of my own existence - is a side effect, a generalization of all those desires, fears, emotions, memories, those thoughts that experience themselves, that resonate with themselves and in so doing discover their own existence.

THE MOUNTAIN AND ME: I DON'T KNOW I EXIST IF I DON'T SEE IT
There is no personal consciousness without a primary perception that resonates with itself, "knows" that it exists and, by generalizing with other perceptions, will produce an I that perceives itself and believes that it perceives the world (in fact, it is the world that perceives itself). But this I arrives at the end. It is not a source or center of consciousness, of action, of decision, but only the reflection of the interactions between the world and "my" body in the world.
Man does not really seek to understand the world or to understand himself in the world. Our thoughts, our emotions, are all centered on this obsession that overrides everything else: PROVE OURSELVES AND PROVE TO THE WORLD that we exist and that we act in the right way.
[Seeking to confirm the belief that we exist]

LIBERATION: AN IMPOSSIBILITY (THE THINKING EGO THINKS ITSELF BY DENYING ITSELF)
To speculate that the I is an illusion, to deny that it exists as an autonomous entity, only strengthens it in its being. [The denial of a thing is only a second idea about an idea].
The I is not the idea of my body. It is the reflection (idea of idea) of a general idea of consciousness; it is the reflection of primary perceptions that echoes on itself, and thus knows that it exists.
The more the I thinks about itself (either to affirm its existence, as Descartes does, or to contest it, as here), the more it anchors itself to itself; the more it creates secondary ideas about itself, the more these ideas - which exist only in relation to it - will reinforce its existence.
The only possibility for the "I" to return to nothingness is to stop thinking itself. But this is impossible.
An idea can pose the negation of the object it is supposed to represent, it can think itself as a fiction, it cannot be the cause of its own extinction, any more than an object can return to nothingness by itself.

REFLECTIONS FOR NOTHING (A REFLECTION BECOMES EVERYTHING AND IS STILL NOTHING)
The disappearance of the I would not change the order of things.

MAN IS NOT WHAT HE THINKS HE IS (II)
The body is an extraordinary biological and chemical factory. We ignore everything about its functioning (at the intuitive level of self-apprehension, of course, not at the level of external objective knowledge): the "I" knows only itself. It does not care about the rest. It arrives at the end of the chain of causes, of which it knows nothing, of course, and decides that it is at the beginning of everything, and that everything is at its disposal because it has important things, great things and noble ideals to realize.
The I exists by cutting itself off from reality: why would it hold on to it?

THE ABSOLUTE ILLUSION OF THE EGO
The ego is entirely superfluous, for its essence is to be aware of itself and nothing else in particular. As a result, it can take the leading role in the play that is being acted out - or, more accurately, that it is acting out. The absolute illusion of the ego exists precisely because everything in nature functions without it, and without needing it - everything in nature, including those places called my body and mind. [It feels superior to the body/mind because it sees their limitations; it believes it has none].
The ego is only a reflection of a general idea of consciousness, which itself is only a resonance of particular mental facts, but it appropriates these same mental facts of which it is only a by-product; although everything is done without it, it acts as if everything passes through it: in its own eyes (that is to say, in our own eyes, because we are it), it is the center of the world.

SELF-AWARENESS THE CAT AND THE CAMERA
Reflective consciousness: not only knowing and knowing about, but also knowing that one knows (self-consciousness, consciousness of the self)
Knowing that I exist does not make me exist "more" or see better than the camera or the cat. [The difference is that humans have a more complex nervous system.]
The abusive restriction of "consciousness" to "reflective consciousness" makes us believe that we are different from the rest of nature or that we exist outside the order of things.
Reflective consciousness cannot exist without a universal primary consciousness. It is only a by-product of the processing of information by the senses in contact with nature, it adds nothing to the operations of the primary consciousness at work.

THE PROBLEM: I THINK I EXIST
Anxious, desperate or happy, I believe I exist. I must act, control, "fulfill" myself (money, god, help, change the world, be virtuous...) Desires, fears, aspirations exist. In fact, there is nothing else. There is nothing but these energies that become aware of themselves and deploy themselves in the world against other forces.
Nothing that "I accomplish" is illusory - what is illusory is the "I" that thinks it is accomplishing anything.
The goal that the "I" has set for itself, the goal reached or accomplished by the ego as a simultaneous reflection of action, is a total illusion. The ego can neither act nor create, it cannot even "realize" itself: it never exists itself except as a reflection of something else.

THE EGO IS A BY-PRODUCT OF A UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUSNESS IT IS ONLY THE SELF-REPRESENTATION OF A PHYSICAL-MENTAL LOCATION IT DOES NOT ENJOY FREE WILL
The very nature of reflected consciousness, so completely dependent on primary consciousness, makes free will - the so-called faculty of "will" - a complete impossibility. The reflected image in the mirror cannot do what it wants; much less can it move "its" object. Likewise the ego - a general idea of reflected consciousness - cannot command the body. Just as the cells of the body do their business without regard to whether there is a reflected manifestation of their activities or not, the senses and the whole nervous system react with the external world - and it does not matter whether the I is there to "look after" their affairs or not. On the contrary, it is the I that needs them in order to exist - an existence at the center of reality for the I, and totally superfluous for the rest of nature.
Ignorance or lack of understanding of the interactions taking place does not mean that I enjoy free will, that I can explain everything by the intervention of "my will."

CONSCIOUSNESS AND SELF-AWARENESS
I call consciousness the sensitivity of matter to itself.
Self-awareness - the I - is a generalization of multiple reflections or echoes of the basic consciousness vibrating on itself in a given place - a human being. It is simply a chemical reaction that becomes aware of itself...

THE FUNDAMENTAL ERROR (VANITY OF VANITIES, EVERYTHING IS A SHADOW GAME)
The fundamental error is to believe that the reflected consciousness (of which the ego is a by-product) is superior, "more advanced" than the basic universal consciousness of which it is only an extremely limited reflection.
A parallel error is to believe that the I gives orders to the body or controls the thoughts "that it has": a manifest impossibility, since the body must first react with the external world in order for the mental facts to be produced whose reflective generalization on itself will finally allow the I to think itself.
The course of my life is no more "my work" than the river decides its course. Both are the result of forces of nature in action, both are forces of nature in act.
In man, these forces know that they exist and that they act; this does not mean that they are the cause of their actions or of their existence.

EVERYTHING IS A NATURAL PHENOMENON, INCLUDING "MY" ACTIONS.
IN REALITY, "I" DO NOTHING.
ON THE CONTRARY, EVENTS TAKE PLACE, AS A RESULT OF WHICH THE MEANING OF THE SUBJECT TAKES SHAPE EVERYTHING IN NATURE IS A PHYSICAL-MENTAL PLACE.

Nothing exists in itself in nature independently of the rest. Nature is an organic whole. Everything is both "matter" and energy, vibration, sensitivity, "consciousness".
Everything in nature reacts according to the complexity of the "body", the material organization of the place in question. The more complex it is, the more complex the reactions and interactions with other bodies will be.
The physical is the basic material organization, the mental is the set of interactions of this same unit with its environment.
Because of its complexity, the behavior and reactions of a physical-mental place are much more difficult to predict and understand than, for example, those of a copper wire. Hence the illusion of freedom and free will, the illusion that man is "something else" in nature.
Thought is thus only a set of general ideas; consciousness is only possible thanks to them. One does not recognize one's mother (or anything else), but only the general idea one has already formed of it.

In summary
1. Human mental body
2. General idea
3. Reflective awareness (duplicated general idea)
4. General idea of reflective consciousness
5. Illusion of the ego


THE CASE OF UPPALURI GOPALA KRISHNAMURTI: NEITHER KNOWLEDGE NOR WISDOM IS DISCOVERED. IN FACT, THERE IS NO ONE.

UG DOES NOT KNOW THAT HE EXISTS. There is no awareness of his own existence. His energy flows freely instead of being wasted in self-obsession.
Liberation is precisely what the ego desires, and liberation is nothing but the end of the ego: the more it desires it, the more it strengthens itself, and the less it is possible.
We are already liberated BUT WE WANT TO KNOW IT, WE WANT TO EXPERIENCE IT. Who says experience or knowledge says thoughtful idea, who says thoughtful idea says ego. THE NATURAL STATE IS, BY DEFINITION, SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE KNOWN, SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE EXPERIENCED.
UG is neither free nor slave, because he is not. As for us, our objective existence is no different from his. Our subjective intuition of self-conscious I creates the concepts of freedom and bondage.
The content of my ideas can influence my moods, my psychic balance, my apprehension of myself, of others, of the world. But this does not change the mechanism of the reflection which creates the illusion of the I.

_________________
Giving others the freedom to be stupid is one of the most important and hardest steps to take in spiritual progress.
Conveniently the opportunity to take that step is all around us every day.


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