Natural Freedom

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:10 am 
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Hey Kidd,

you and me have talked about this but I thought it's worth bringing this topic here too.

You said you have seen natural women (like women who came from Asian to America) and then they were influenced by American social culture and became like American women....

you also said you know someone who married a German woman and when she came to America she changed.....

So if one marries an Asian woman and brings her to America, how does he keep her from turning to a non natural woman?

maybe you can elaborate on this and tell us more exmaples of how you saw natural women become not natual once they came to America?

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"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"
Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:10 am 
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Ok, I did jump in and type a long reply to this, must have forgotten to click submit or something and it did not end up getting posted... arggh, so here goes
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From my view, I have seen this lots of times in the past.. Someone new appears, they are so so natural (from the way people on here define it) and then they get twisted and changed by their interactions with the social matrix surrounding them.

From your reading you might be aware that on a biological/genetic level women/females are MUCH MUCH more influenceable by their environment and tend to adapt and blend into it than men are. This is something that has developed over thousands and thousands of years, it is re-inforced by teaching and the social matrix - at its core it is something that is part of them at a core level.

It is tied to their survival, as they historically needed a group around them, to support them and take care of them at certain times during their lives, to provide food for them when they were incapable of gathering and for emotional support. Most of this stems from the way women are incapacitated during late pregnancy and early childrearing due to the physical and time demands placed upon them by the process of bearing and raising children.

If women had not developed this method of coping with the demands you would have a load of women all trying to juggle getting food, raising different aged children together with surviving - some way along this path they on some level came to the understanding that banding together and supporting each other made the task easier for each individual within the group. This pattern has gone on for thousands of years.

This has lead to women needing to fit into their local environment, for survival if no other reasons. They needed this for survival, I am not saying they do so much now - they still seem to seek it though (apart from an odd few who rebel against it). One of the consequences of this is that women are very influenceable by their peer group and local social dynamics, put this together with the way women left their group to join the men's group upon marriage in a lot of societies and they had a hardwired need to adapt and fit in to the group surrounding them. This is something that has grown over generations, it is not so much taught as a part of them.

So, you have a woman entering from a foreign environment to the local environment, they will be strongly influenced by the factors in the local environment, both the people, the social matrix and the media in that place.

This I believe is also why there is all this stuff around about leading women, women are lead by the environment around them, it is part of their nature. If you lead and your frame is strong and clear enough, they will follow - it is part of their nature - they want to follow on a real deep level. If you try to lead and your frame is weak and unclear they will not follow, as you are showing yourself as like a leaf in the wind, easily blown around and not someone to be trusted to lead.

Females have very complex (yet simple :) ) social constructs that develop from a very very young age that give the chain of command and influence in their lives. It is like a lot of concentric rings going out around them with differing levels of influence. They spend a LOT of their time defining and re-defining these social power constructs between each other, there is an almost constant bartering of power going on, not on a concious level but it is there if you watch. Being able to observe and see this will open your eyes to many things going on around you.

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So you have this woman from a foreign environment come in, to resist all the influences around her, from people and organisations that have much more power locally than her takes a lot of internal strength and a real grounded sense of who she is. Also she may actually be hurting her survival in the local environment by resisting as she will set herself aside from the other women locally. This is a real tough one for them to resist.
The ones who I have found who have done this tend to almost revel in the fact that they are loners and not a part of things, they are very strong women, they also to some degree or other pay a price for holding onto that part of them. It goes against a lot of their instincts.

It is not an easy path for them to take, everything around them tends to push them to conform and fit in. In this way it is not unlike how modern men are being treated by the social matrix and media surrounding them.

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As men become men and not boys they tend to shake off a lot of this and become less influenceable, after all, how can you be an effective leader if you are following everyone else.

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:02 pm 
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Wow Thanks for this explanation peregrinus, I think you have answered my question. :)
So let's look at reality: a man has to be strong, grounded and lead- even if he will marry a natural woman (Unless he decides to go and live with her in the east or at a different natural country.....)

A man who is not strong in character could marry a natural woman but then if he takes her to his sociaty\western country she might lose intrest in him or adapt characters of a prada or a social alpha and then won't treat him well.

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"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"
Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:27 pm 
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Thanks, 'grinus!...and i know that i didn't even need to read it to cosign! :mrgreen:

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