Natural Freedom

Forum for the natural awakening and self-realization of men
It is currently Fri May 25, 2018 9:46 am

All times are UTC+01:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 589
Location: The side of a mountain somewhere...
Man, I'm half way through this super long article (more the length of a mini-book), and it is really good, so I couldn't not post it here.

http://therawness.com/reader-letters-1-part-4/

Here's an excerpt:

SOCIETY DOESN’T CARE IF YOU PASS OR FAIL WOMEN’S TESTS, JUST THAT YOU AGREE THAT IT’S YOUR DUTY TO TAKE THEM

As I’ve said in previous installments, what sexual affection conquests are to a man, flattering attention and ego boosts are to woman. Society teaches women this from very young, and as a result women realize early the power they wield by strategically denying and granting men access to their vaginas, or even just the potential for access to their vaginas. Society however doesn’t teach men about the fact that flattering attention and ego boosts to a woman are as important as sexual conquests are to men, and that the best weapon men have against women and their way of leveling the playing field is to strategically deny and grant women access to their flattering attention, or even just the potential for access to their flattering attention. Women are told to respect themselves and their bodies, but men aren’t similarly taught to respect themselves and their time.

Why doesn’t society teach this? Because capitalist society runs and thrives on men who remain ignorant of this dynamic! Do you ever realize how many times a day our society takes advantage of a man’s need for sexual affection conquests and his willingness to give away his flattering attention to a woman for absolutely nothing in return? Just look at the advertising industry if you want proof. Capitalist society gets absolutely no benefit from the reverse situation of women surrendering sexual affection willy-nilly the way men currently give away their flattering attention, and it gets no benefit from the reverse situation of men strategically hoarding and rationing their flattering attention in the same way women currently strategically hoard and ration out sexual affection.

Notice I use the term “sexual affection conquests” rather than “pussy” or just “sex.” This is very deliberate. People think men are driven by pussy, and they’re just chasing sex. They aren’t. Sex matters to men less than the validation they get from sexual combined with conquests and affection (by affection I mean just any type of friendly, warm approving treatment). If it was really about sex in a vacuum rather than the ego validation that comes from the combination of sex, conquest and affection, most men would be happy with prostitutes and find them interchangeable with one night stands they meet in clubs. However they don’t. So it’s not really about the sex. It’s about knowing that they somehow earned a woman’s approval and affection along with the sex. She found them worthy. They like the sex not just because of how good it feels but because of what it stands for: female approval and affection. That is what guys really are driven by, not sex by itself.
Think about it, if men could live under the bridge in a cardboard box and still get sexual conquests and sexual affection, how could you sell them anything? If men became stingy with flattering attention, how could you sell them anything? Think of how much marketing and moneymaking revolves around the implicit promise to men “Do this and you will get sexual conquests.” Think of how much marketing and moneymaking revolves around the implicit requirement of men “It’s your job to provide flattering attention to women and seek their approval.” Think of how much government control revolves around making sure society revolves around those same principles. It prevents anarchy and keeps men under control in their eyes. That’s why it’s important to keep prostitution stigmatized and illegal. Otherwise, men may start finding sex without the added ego validation of conquest and affection to be almost as worthwhile as the socially accepted practice of jumping through hoops for so-called “free” sex, and at that point the social dynamic that is the engine of capitalism and civilization is fucked up.

_________________
"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Amazing article...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 589
Location: The side of a mountain somewhere...
Another really good passage:
Quote:
For example, take a product that I found when researching for this piece. It’s called David DeAngelo’s 77 Laws for Success With Women and Dating. Mind you, I haven’t listened to this product, so I don’t know what it teaches in detail. I found it because I was looking to see if there were some PUAs specializing in laws and principles over tactics, and thereby avoiding the “hypertacticality” trap. This came close, but it totally falls into the ego trap I mentioned earlier of being in some ways even more dangerous than the usual PUA bad advice on account of the bad mindframe being more subtle.

See, if it was just called 77 Laws for Self-Respect or 77 Laws for Self-Esteem or 77 Laws for Self-Actualization or 77 Laws for Inner Peace I’d have been happy with it, as it would be congruent with the true self mindframe. But by adding “for success with women and dating” to the title, now all 77 laws become framed as a tool for external validation and as a result now fall into tools for reinforcing your false, idealized self rather of promoting your true self. Your goal becomes getting better at receiving validation rather than learning to become independent of any need for validation.

That means some of the potentially good advice in this product like “work on yourself,” “evict your inner wussy,” “know your purpose,” and stop apologizing” now carries a subtext that turns it into “work on yourself so you can get external validation from women,” “evict your inner wussy so that you can get external validation from women,” and “stop apologizing so that you can get external validation from women.” This puts it in alignment with the laws of the false self. A better frame would be “work on yourself to gain self-respect, because doing so is its own reward in and of itself,” “evict your inner wussy to gain self-respect, because doing so is its own reward in an of itself,” and “stop apologizing to gain self-respect, because doing so is its own reward in and of itself.” This frame, which is regrettably absent, would put the advice in alignment with the laws of the true self.

All you’ve done is ditch the wuss behavior but keep the wuss core. In fact, you’ve made the wuss core harder to fix because you disguised it under a alpha male Halloween costume and script.
Hmm... I remember in particular some Grinus posts really emphasizing the "work on yourself not to get women, but because it is its own reward" frame.

_________________
"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Amazing article...
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:28 pm
Posts: 175
Thank you for posting this. It was a LONG READ and there are tons of gems within. I will have to re-read the article a few times as I know there are some parts I glossed over!

I read a few other articles & his blog is thought provoking!

_________________
"Truth is not something that can be truly and deeply understood by having it spoon-fed to you." - Adyashanti


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Amazing article...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:35 pm
Posts: 10
Grinus has body slammed the correct. Do it for you, not for any sort of conquest. Do it for you because you will tighten up and they (women) will wonder what you've got. And then they will wonder what you've got that you're not showing. And then reel them in as needed. "Teach a man to fish..."


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Amazing article...
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:02 am
Posts: 222
Quote:
People think men are driven by pussy, and they’re just chasing sex. They aren’t. Sex matters to men less than the validation they get from sexual combined with conquests and affection (by affection I mean just any type of friendly, warm approving treatment).
So true!


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Amazing article...
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 10:06 pm
Posts: 106
Wow, halfway through and this is really hitting home. I wonder how much of the pimp game can be evaluated in the lens of narcissism and co-dependency.

_________________
“The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way.” — Marcus Aurelius


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Amazing article...
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 3086
Location: Canada
caster wrote:
Wow, halfway through and this is really hitting home. I wonder how much of the pimp game can be evaluated in the lens of narcissism and co-dependency.
The level of game that is taught here, cannot be matched by a true pimp.

"If you live by the pussy you'll die by the pussy, but if your self-sufficent you can forge your own destiny"

3 guesses to who said that. ;)

_________________
A truly powerful Man jealously guards his most precious resources; his independence and his ability to maneuver. True power isn’t controlling others, but the degree to which you control the course of your own life and your own choices. -Rational Male


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Amazing article...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:51 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:08 pm
Posts: 2953
Location: UK
therawness wrote:
The correct solution is peel away his false self and to find out who his true self is, and strive to be true to that instead of striving to live up to his false, idealized self. This will give him true self-esteem.

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Amazing article...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:08 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:08 pm
Posts: 2953
Location: UK
The followup, part 5, is here:

http://therawness.com/reader-letters-1-part-5/

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:33 am
Posts: 1637
Location: Czech Republic
Quote:
You are fine just the way you are…and there’s always room for improvement.
fuk

Has tears in eyes


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 589
Location: The side of a mountain somewhere...
fufe wrote:
Quote:
You are fine just the way you are…and there’s always room for improvement.
fuk

Has tears in eyes

I believe he actually paraphrased that from Suzuki Roshi, the man who first brought Zen to the United States and founded the San Francisco Zen Center.

“Each of you is perfect the way you are ... and you can use a little improvement.”
― Shunryu Suzuki

http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/ ... ryu_Suzuki

_________________
"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:08 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:18 am
Posts: 1574
Thanks for this Meraki.
I enjoy so much the "T- man" he has a very well organized brain and prolix texts.

_________________
GMST
:ugeek:


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: Amazing article...
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:33 am
Posts: 1637
Location: Czech Republic
peregrinus wrote:
The followup, part 5, is here:

http://therawness.com/reader-letters-1-part-5/
There is not a single sentence that is not right, at my case

And how do I feel ? - Ashamed (much puns)


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:51 pm
Posts: 1707
Location: Laniakea Supercluster
Meraki wrote:

“Each of you is perfect the way you are ... and you can use a little improvement.”
― Shunryu Suzuki
Perfection has many children.

_________________
♙♙♙♙♙♙♙♙
♖♘♗♕♔♗♘♖


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 8:04 am
Posts: 904
Location: USA
bump.

This entire article shined so much light on areas of myself that I was unaware of. A very powerful and thought provoking read for me.

It helped me get past a sticking point I had with moving past old pains. I realized my introspection was missing the emotional awareness side of it.

I've learned reasons why I have X,Y and Z, but I shied away from the emotions that arose with X,Y and Z; I chose to avoid the feelings and intellectualized the whole matter and this is why I never was able to have lasting and meaningful results. I was cheating out of a big part of the process, processing those old emotions I've been carrying around and honoring what I feel.

It's such a relief to be able to see that and it truly came at the right time; I would not have the strength months back to revisit my painful memories and also have emotional awareness at the same time. To be honest, I'm scared to revisit the memories which I've locked deep inside myself, because I know it will be painful!

I understand it now when others say "they've made peace with their demons"...they've revisited the painful memories and honored what they felt.

I'm talking a lot about myself...this was all just great stuff and a big big realization and insight deeper into myself!

I feel true self-esteem is around the corner.

Also, the author is great at gathering useful information for the audience to use, while also citing his information from outside sources; not just using his own opinion.

Thank you Meraki for posting this here.

_________________
less - is - more


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:37 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:54 am
Posts: 3614
Location: The unknown
bliss wrote:
bump.

This entire article shined so much light on areas of myself that I was unaware of. A very powerful and thought provoking read for me.

It helped me get past a sticking point I had with moving past old pains. I realized my introspection was missing the emotional awareness side of it.

I've learned reasons why I have X,Y and Z, but I shied away from the emotions that arose with X,Y and Z; I chose to avoid the feelings and intellectualized the whole matter and this is why I never was able to have lasting and meaningful results. I was cheating out of a big part of the process, processing those old emotions I've been carrying around and honoring what I feel.

It's such a relief to be able to see that and it truly came at the right time; I would not have the strength months back to revisit my painful memories and also have emotional awareness at the same time. To be honest, I'm scared to revisit the memories which I've locked deep inside myself, because I know it will be painful!

I understand it now when others say "they've made peace with their demons"...they've revisited the painful memories and honored what they felt.

I'm talking a lot about myself...this was all just great stuff and a big big realization and insight deeper into myself!

I feel true self-esteem is around the corner.

Also, the author is great at gathering useful information for the audience to use, while also citing his information from outside sources; not just using his own opinion.

Thank you Meraki for posting this here.

Thanks for bumping this I'm glad I noticed it and read it too

Thanks Meraki for sharing this

_________________
"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"
Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 589
Location: The side of a mountain somewhere...
No prob, Bob. 8-)

_________________
"The society gives you a map; I give you only freedom. The society gives you character, I give you only consciousness. The society teaches you to live a conformist life ... I give you an invitation to go on an adventure." - Osho


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:50 am 
I'm starting part 5 now. I think this will tie in nicely with the old thread I bumped.

If you read all the tangential articles for the letters series it's like a book.

Here's another followup: http://therawness.com/reader-letters-1-epilogue/


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:14 am
Posts: 1867
I started reading these articles yesterday, reading through the last couple ones now.

The 'false-self' was brought to my awareness and I know where and when it originated, it just clicked. In my darkest moments it grew stronger. I mean this guy is on my team but only exists as a coping mechanism.

I feel I'm getting closer but I ask myself just how many layers are there? a couple years ago I found my 'inner child' and it was dark in there, I thought that was it but there are so many dimensions to this.

So many layers.

_________________
"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: 

cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited