Natural Freedom

Forum for the natural awakening and self-realization of men
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 Post subject: Re: Enlightenment is Bad
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:04 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:51 pm
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Flow83 wrote:
Nice man.

Are you referencing the quote (paraphrase): To be enlightened is to have the power to move mountains but also you realize the mountain is exactly where it is supposed to be. Says it all.

Siddhis Are also not true means to ending suffering. It's only if you're still trapped in the idea of suffering or not depending on external conditions.

They are also not a guarantee to happen and to judge based on having them or not is the same wheel as thinking you need to get pussy to be happy.
Witnessed many Siddhis, they are not personal. Siddhis are a lure,
a delay, or neither. Great when they happen, great when they don´t.

You can be enlightened and happy and rich and popular. No rule over another
there.

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 Post subject: Re: Enlightenment is Bad
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:29 am 
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Jared wrote:
Flow83 wrote:
Nice man.

Are you referencing the quote (paraphrase): To be enlightened is to have the power to move mountains but also you realize the mountain is exactly where it is supposed to be. Says it all.

Siddhis Are also not true means to ending suffering. It's only if you're still trapped in the idea of suffering or not depending on external conditions.

They are also not a guarantee to happen and to judge based on having them or not is the same wheel as thinking you need to get pussy to be happy.
Witnessed many Siddhis, they are not personal. Siddhis are a lure,
a delay, or neither. Great when they happen, great when they don´t.

You can be enlightened and happy and rich and popular. No rule over another
there.
Like Osho? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Enlightenment is Bad
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:54 pm
Posts: 444
Thanks for the tip on the Jed book, Dali. Have bookmarked this and will check it out.

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"I will not grow in the light, until I pass through the darkest caverns of my heart..."

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 Post subject: Re: Enlightenment is Bad
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Jared wrote:
they are not personal
Amen, that's the "secret" - such a bummer to the ego who wants them to bend reality to it's will :lol:

This is not to say I personally have gone beyond wanting some things like this for that very reason. But at least now I let myself want it when I want it in order to move through it, instead of whipping myself saying it's not spiritual enough and trying to reject every desire.

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 Post subject: Re: Enlightenment is Bad
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:42 pm 
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Posts: 227
I love the Jed McKenna books! I just finished the last one (The Notebook) yesterday. His looks on enlightenment are quite radical and he has a non bullshit approach to explaining what enlightenment is about. And his books are very enjoyable to read too! Highly recommended.


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 Post subject: Re: Enlightenment is Bad
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:21 am 
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Quote:
Buddhism, and popular Western proponents of its ideals such as Eckhart Tolle, take the fragmentation of the Self to its end.
Hmm. Interesting observation although different from what I understand Buddhism, and espcially Tolle to be talking about. I always understood it to be more like a disengagement with the identification of the "self" as we normally understand it. The "i" as is always was remains the same. Its just no longer who we perceive ourselves to be. Instead we are the limitless space that contains the I, and the entire universe as well.
Quote:
Enlightenment, or “Nirvana,” the Pali term, means “blowing out” – i.e., the extinguishing of one’s individual, divine spark.
I found this quote on Wiki "The word literally means "blown out" (as in a candle) and refers, in the Buddhist context, to the imperturbable stillness of mind after the fires of desire, aversion, and delusion have been finally extinguished." That describes it more like what I understood. Not that I know shit, just my $.02. The 'eternal' flame cannot be extinguished, or it would not be eternal. Its the flame of desire, so-to-speak that gets extinguished. Actually, as far as Tolle and other non-dualists would say, even that is not extinguished, just no longer identified with and see to be illusion.
Quote:
Buddha observed that everything in the physical world is subject to impermanence and entropy, and artificially imposed this entropy on the Self in the attempt to dissolve it, therefore “ending suffering.” Through a process of relinquishing everything – thought, will, desire, love – all is stripped away to the point that there ceases to be any awareness of one’s Self as an autonomous, sovereign individual personality.
Respectfully, I don't think you're getting what Buddha was about at all. He didn't have to artificially impose entropy on the self. The self he's referring to will change on its own. Its a mutable entity and will always adapt for its own perceived survival. The paradox is that all you do is relinquish the self as your identity. That seems like everything, seems like death (Jesus said "truly you must die to enter the kingdom") but what happens is that you wind up getting the entire world, the entire universe. You inherit ALL of it, its all within you.
Quote:
So it is with enlightenment. One removes everything that can be removed, leaving the physical body and conscious mind. You’ve got peace – but it’s the peace of death; entropy that has reached zero-point. You’ve got detachment – the literal detachment of all one’s parts from their centralized location in the 3D world.
You have some deep thoughts ... but again, as far as I get the whole non-dual thing, kind of straying off a bit. The peace of death is an illusion. Who's dying? YOU cannot die. Its the peace of the elimination of the experience of death by giving up that which thinks it can die. But you will never die, not the true you.
Quote:
A navigator that can’t go anywhere. An interpreter and assigner of value that exists in a state of sensory deprivation. Passion without an object.
This is your mind, self, "I" or ego talking. The thing that fears death (understandably), seeing how horrible it will be once its purpose, or the meaning of its existence is taken away. But that meaning will not be taken anywhere. The navigator will explore the depths of its world just as it does now. The pain and joy of that world will be just as present. What will not be present is the suffering and attachment, because you will be the eternal, unending, context/space that the sun rises and sets in. Actually we are all this already. Enlightenment, or awakening which I prefer, is the realization of this.


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 Post subject: Re: Enlightenment is Bad
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:33 am
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Location: Czech Republic
I'd be interested in hearing from Altair himself how his views on thišs changed, since the original htread is 3 years old or so


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