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How does indifference differ from invisible
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Author:  Magnatolia [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  How does indifference differ from invisible
Hey guys,

In todays world, if a guy is indifferent he is invisible, yes? When I'm out and about on a train or bus I watch the women around me. Even when a typical example of what would be considered an attractive man gets on nobody pays attention. Everyone is so wrapped up in their own shit they don't notice what is going on around them. So by being indifferent and not doing anything how does that actually allow a guy to improve his chances of attracting a woman?

Indifference to the outcome, now that I understand. You take an action, approach a girl at the bar for example, and you think 'I'll give her a chance to meet me, could be fun' and you're open to whatever unravels. Whether she rolls her eyes, has a short polite conversation with you, is smitten, etc.

Any thoughts?
Author:  Flow83 [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How does indifference differ from invisible
The last part - the frame of mind. If you take the version of the word that is the apathetic "i don't give a shit about anything or anyone" then you could get a picture of total passiveness.

Permission to totally express yourself, exactly what you think and feel confidently, without filtering it out of deep fear/concern for what the reaction will be.

Or the GP Walsh stuff which Meraki brought up in the other thread about this, that it is the cultivation of an attitude of indifference to your own discomfort in new situations. Things will be uncomfortable the first time(s) you do them, exercising, etc. etc. - you cultivate an attitude of yeah maybe i am resisting this or feel discomfort around it but i am going to do it anyway because it is my vision for life. Then what seemed like a big deal doesn't any more (we all have countless examples of this in our lives in at least some topic) - process repeats.
Author:  Dali [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How does indifference differ from invisible
Magnatolia wrote:
Hey guys,

In todays world, if a guy is indifferent he is invisible, yes? When I'm out and about on a train or bus I watch the women around me. Even when a typical example of what would be considered an attractive man gets on nobody pays attention. Everyone is so wrapped up in their own shit they don't notice what is going on around them. So by being indifferent and not doing anything how does that actually allow a guy to improve his chances of attracting a woman?

Indifference to the outcome, now that I understand. You take an action, approach a girl at the bar for example, and you think 'I'll give her a chance to meet me, could be fun' and you're open to whatever unravels. Whether she rolls her eyes, has a short polite conversation with you, is smitten, etc.

Any thoughts?
Vibe, I cannot talk for the woman, but I guess they "feel you" like your "prescence", even before meeting you. I've experienced this it's fun.

Hell no, the hoes scream at you (subtly) when you exude the 'indifference vibe', which stems from confidence.

To the latter, we take a more introspective approach.
Flow83 wrote:
The last part - the frame of mind. If you take the version of the word that is the apathetic "i don't give a shit about anything or anyone" then you could get a picture of total passiveness.

Permission to totally express yourself, exactly what you think and feel confidently, without filtering it out of deep fear/concern for what the reaction will be.

Or the GP Walsh stuff which Meraki brought up in the other thread about this, that it is the cultivation of an attitude of indifference to your own discomfort in new situations. Things will be uncomfortable the first time(s) you do them, exercising, etc. etc. - you cultivate an attitude of yeah maybe i am resisting this or feel discomfort around it but i am going to do it anyway because it is my vision for life. Then what seemed like a big deal doesn't any more (we all have countless examples of this in our lives in at least some topic) - process repeats.
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy knows the latter as Systematic desensitization. Just info.

[ img ]
Author:  GoldenBoy [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How does indifference differ from invisible
Magnatolia wrote:
Hey guys,

In todays world, if a guy is indifferent he is invisible, yes? When I'm out and about on a train or bus I watch the women around me. Even when a typical example of what would be considered an attractive man gets on nobody pays attention. Everyone is so wrapped up in their own shit they don't notice what is going on around them. So by being indifferent and not doing anything how does that actually allow a guy to improve his chances of attracting a woman?

Indifference to the outcome, now that I understand. You take an action, approach a girl at the bar for example, and you think 'I'll give her a chance to meet me, could be fun' and you're open to whatever unravels. Whether she rolls her eyes, has a short polite conversation with you, is smitten, etc.

Any thoughts?
In my opinion, except on extreme environments like train (excessive amoun of people, fear of disturbing others, of being disturbed, robbed ...) you can't be invisible.

Quick story :

Today I had to go to the post office.
20 minutes walk.
I almost wanted to post something because it's the TOTAL opposite of what you write.

From experience, people are in these categories during the day :
- people who look at everything and everyone that comes.
- people who are completely in their head.
- people who are in their head and some times something/someone catches their attention for a moment.

Anyways, almost 1 out of 2 (on the street) and 1 out of 5 (in their cars) looked at me.
Some just a quick glance, some a little longer like gauging me, some with a somewhat aggressive or defiant gaze, ...

Me ? I just look at everything that catches my attention (a pigeon, some windows, an old lady, ...), even though my peripherials catch everything else on the side.
I don't try to get attention (regular looks and clothes), just enjoying the walk, yet people look.

So, invisible ? Possible only in environments where people don't feel comfortable looking up ... (to add on Dali's comment, they would surely feel it, but are not comfortable enough to show it)
Quote:
So by being indifferent and not doing anything how does that actually allow a guy to improve his chances of attracting a woman?
When you're indifferent, you're not wrapped in your own thoughts and can then notice other people's behaviour, your gut becomes accessible ... So that you know which women are attracted.

But as indifference is an indicator of underlying conditions, so is women being attracted to you only a side effect of you living your life, being yourself.

As flow said :
Quote:
Permission to totally express yourself, exactly what you think and feel confidently, without filtering it out of deep fear/concern for what the reaction will be.
Beautiful.
Author:  fufe [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How does indifference differ from invisible
I second what these guys said.. Also.. Dealing with your inner shit seems to naturally move you towards indifference, as you in time doing it see that you don't "need" women (among other things)
Author:  Altair [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How does indifference differ from invisible
To your ego there is no difference :ugeek:
Author:  Flow83 [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How does indifference differ from invisible
Enjoying these replies - yeah it's quite opposite of invisible, it really does have an attractive quality.

The thing is it NOT a behavior, it is not a specific action ie not speaking or a poker face, etc. It is a state when you know more and more that everything you want comes from inside of you, so that desperate need and all the attachments / aversions to everything outside begins to drop away.

You will express and feel everything much more fully - you have total permission to now. However, WHAT you express will be more authentic and coming from that natural place. Almost all the stuff that men are taught not to do behavior-wise, like worshipping women, supplicating etc drops away because it is *not natural* to you.. it comes from a feeling of lack or trying to get something from her, wanting to prove to yourself that you are enough, etc. I am speaking from experience as someone who did all the wrong stuff. It's not like there is a conscious decision "ok, don't do that thing anymore." The unnaturalness of it is obvious, I wouldn't even think to do it these days.

This has nothing to do with not smiling, not being super cordial and friendly to people (you might find yourself doing that much more because you are actually happy and are just expressing that), not treating women well, not being able to flirt or be sexual - you can do all of these things far more powerfully now because you don't have that thing in the back that knows that your whole self esteem is going to hinge on what happens.

As you tackle the internal stuff (and take action in the 'outer' world to check it... ie you'll sit there in your room thinking you're the mac now and then you go out on the street and the mere sight of an attractive women brings up all the programming) this way does arise more and more naturally.

As soon as you are trying to actively show someone / women that you are indifferent, by definition you are not
Quote:
But as indifference is an indicator of underlying conditions, so is women being attracted to you only a side effect of you living your life, being yourself.
This is right on - it is about being yourself, what is actually there when it's not buried in layers of BS, which means it can step into any emotion, anger, happiness, be high or low energy, be sexual or professional, etc in 100% your own unique way which arises.

Again, this is so not invisible. I've been doing this type of inner-work for a while now, as you know I even have my own place for it and study with teachers, work with other guys etc. and it still continues to grow in terms of seeing where I am still thinking of this as some type of behavior or some way it is supposed to look vs. being who you naturally are.

And yes, I am experiencing things like recently a woman just straight up asking me out, out of nowhere, not knowing her - etc. I was doing nothing 'badass' in the moment in fact the opposite, haha. How attractive she was when I met up with her threw me a bit actually. This is part of the continuing growth, I started to think about how i was supposed to do things now, noticed my own limits in the area of what i thought was possible, what i assumed about her or couldn't accept it being so easy, etc so now I tackle that, next time it will be different and who knows where it will go but it will show me what I need to do next.. and the upward spiral continues. This is a type of indifference - obviously i am now open to more things happening and they are - there's no freaking out or what should I have done, what do I do to fix this, that interaction is done - I look at it objectively, learn from it, and see it as a stepping stone in the next direction.. and my life and work keep feeling more and more satisfying so it's just one small aspect of it. It really is a byproduct like Goldenboy said.
Author:  peregrinus [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How does indifference differ from invisible
indifference != inaction

if anything it leads to more action, from a more authentic place

--

and a lot of what Flow and the other posters said
Author:  Mikey swag [ Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How does indifference differ from invisible
Damn flow that's some real shit. Well said homie
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