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6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam
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Author:  zogler [ Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam

I would describe this article as a very small taste of the Economic Matrix:

http://www.alternet.org/economy/6-reaso ... paging=off

It all starts from the simple fact that a sovereign government faces no financial constraints. It cannot become insolvent in its own non-convertible currency.

Author:  peregrinus [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam

How many governments control/own their own currency?

Or rather, which notable ones do not?

Author:  The Kidd!! [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam

peregrinus wrote:
How many governments control/own their own currency?

Or rather, which notable ones do not?
Exactly...USA's money was outsourced YEARS ago. :roll:

Author:  The GK2 [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam

The main reason is, if they don't keep on raising the debt ceiling and taking on exponentially more and more debt, the currency will simply disappear.

Author:  zogler [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam

peregrinus wrote:
How many governments control/own their own currency?

Or rather, which notable ones do not?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... currencies

The notable ones which do not are the 17 Eurozone states. In fact, they use a foreign currency so they are more akin to the USA states than sovereign countries. They are currency users, like us, and not currency issuers.

Obama and all of Congress have been bribed (via campaign contributions and promises of lucrative employment later) by the upper .1% to vote against the 99.9%.

Let me state it this way:

The question is: Why do they pretend not to understand? The answer: They are paid not to understand.

Who is paying them? The upper .1% income group.

How are they paid? Via political contributions.

Why are they paid? To increase the gap between the rich and the rest. Cutting the deficit increases the gap, because most federal spending benefits the lower income groups.

Why do the rich want the gap increased? The rich don’t care about absolute dollars. They care about comparative dollars. If everyone had a million dollars, no one would be considered rich. But if one person has a million, and everyone else has a quarter million, one person is rich. And if everyone else has a thousand dollars, that one person is very rich.

The more the .1% can press down the lower classes, the “richer” they will feel. So they spread the myth that deficits are too high.

For people to change beliefs, they need to understand the motive for the lie.

Of course, this is the case for most governments nowadays.

Author:  GoldenBoy [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam

zogler wrote:
peregrinus wrote:
How many governments control/own their own currency?

Or rather, which notable ones do not?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... currencies

The notable ones which do not are the 17 Eurozone states. In fact, they use a foreign currency so they are more akin to the USA states than sovereign countries. They are currency users, like us, and not currency issuers.

Obama and all of Congress have been bribed (via campaign contributions and promises of lucrative employment later) by the upper .1% to vote against the 99.9%.

Let me state it this way:

The question is: Why do they pretend not to understand? The answer: They are paid not to understand.

Who is paying them? The upper .1% income group.

How are they paid? Via political contributions.

Why are they paid? To increase the gap between the rich and the rest. Cutting the deficit increases the gap, because most federal spending benefits the lower income groups.

Why do the rich want the gap increased? The rich don’t care about absolute dollars. They care about comparative dollars. If everyone had a million dollars, no one would be considered rich. But if one person has a million, and everyone else has a quarter million, one person is rich. And if everyone else has a thousand dollars, that one person is very rich.

The more the .1% can press down the lower classes, the “richer” they will feel. So they spread the myth that deficits are too high.

For people to change beliefs, they need to understand the motive for the lie.

Of course, this is the case for most governments nowadays.
You sure know how to present information clearly, and it's always very well put.

Wow, just wow.

Author:  Altair [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam

Very interesting, Zogler.

Never thought of it like that...so what will happen to the stock market then? Will it completely collapse or is it just an illusion that it will?

Author:  The Kidd!! [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam

zogler never fails to impress. 8-)

Author:  rekieter [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam

maybe it is true... but how do they want to avoid inflation?

Author:  zogler [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam

GoldenBoy wrote:
You sure know how to present information clearly, and it's always very well put.

Wow, just wow.
I like to give credit where credit is due. Since I stand on the shoulders of giants, I quote them more often than not since THEY also know how to present information clearly. No sense in re-inventing the wheel. :)

This time I quoted some of Rodger Malcolm Mitchell's words in this blog post.
Morpheus wrote:
Very interesting, Zogler.

Never thought of it like that...so what will happen to the stock market then? Will it completely collapse or is it just an illusion that it will?
Stock market crashes follow speculative private debt bubbles. U.S. recessions and depressions (the last of which were also caused by excessive private debt) tend to come on the heels of reductions in federal debt or federal surpluses. You do the math.

If the USA government insists on cutting the deficit and the debt and a private debt bubble starts building up again, then another financial crisis will be around the corner and ready to hit. However, since the memories of how destructive leverage can be for the private sector are still fresh, the most likely scenario is a mild recession.
rekieter wrote:
maybe it is true... but how do they want to avoid inflation?
Inflation is today largely determined by production costs, mainly the cost of energy (oil). This graph clearly demonstrates that oil is the dominating factor explaining prices.

Author:  Slim Titan [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam

@ Zogler:

To fix your statement about federal spending, most federal spending actually benefits the rich, especially in the United States. Think about Mortage interest rate return, capital gains tax reduction, SSI income relief for widows of white men, etc.

Edit: and other parts about the Tax code.

Still fits into what you're arguing though about increasing the gap between the rich and poor. However, that gap is also highly built along racial lines.

Author:  peregrinus [ Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21621048
Quote:
New York's Dow Jones share index set a new all-time high on Tuesday, while London's FTSE 100 closed at it highest level in five years.

Author:  Merrick [ Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam

rkd1990 wrote:
@ Zogler:

To fix your statement about federal spending, most federal spending actually benefits the rich, especially in the United States. Think about Mortage interest rate return, capital gains tax reduction, SSI income relief for widows of white men, etc.

Edit: and other parts about the Tax code.

Still fits into what you're arguing though about increasing the gap between the rich and poor. However, that gap is also highly built along racial lines.
Remember that not everyone here is from the U.S.

Author:  zogler [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam

rkd1990 wrote:
@ Zogler:

To fix your statement about federal spending, most federal spending actually benefits the rich, especially in the United States. Think about Mortage interest rate return, capital gains tax reduction, SSI income relief for widows of white men, etc.

Edit: and other parts about the Tax code.
The vast majority of budget cuts directly impacts the 99.9%, while leaving the .1% relatively unscathed. SInce the vast majority of deficit spending benefits the lower and middle income classes, deficit reduction widens the gap between the mega rich and lower/middle class people. More here.

Taxes are not an issue for the .1%, since politicians willingly let them commit tax evasion or even encourage them to do so.

There is a viral video that underlines wealth inequality in USA really well. It is applicable to almost every nation nowadays.
Link: Wealth Inequality in America
peregrinus wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21621048
Quote:
New York's Dow Jones share index set a new all-time high on Tuesday, while London's FTSE 100 closed at it highest level in five years.
The stock market is not the economy. The problem is that the irrational participants in any market do not always properly anticipate how macro variables will filter through to the micro. Thus, these variables (economic activity, profits etc.) do not always perfectly translate into stock market prices.

The market is not an efficient pricing mechanism that accurately prices in recession or even most things. The participants in any market (e.g. the stock market) suffer from the worst case of “shoot first, ask questions later” you’ve ever seen in your life. Human beings are extremely quick to pull the trigger on something they don’t understand or are totally ill-equipped to psychologically adapt to.

Let's not forget that humans can’t be perfect reasoners because our brains have limited processing capacity, and because our brains are evolved kluges of “spaghetti code” rather than optimally-designed reasoning machines. We commit reasoning errors so often that psychologists have given names to many of the most common errors, names like "recency bias" and "confirmation bias" (both very applicable to the stock market).

The bottom line is the fact that the stock market is not the economy, mainly because its irrational participants generally fail to anticipate how the two actually impact one another. More here.

Author:  rekieter [ Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 6 Reasons the Fiscal Cliff is a Scam

zogler wrote:
GoldenBoy wrote:
You sure know how to present information clearly, and it's always very well put.

Wow, just wow.
I like to give credit where credit is due. Since I stand on the shoulders of giants, I quote them more often than not since THEY also know how to present information clearly. No sense in re-inventing the wheel. :)

This time I quoted some of Rodger Malcolm Mitchell's words in this blog post.
Morpheus wrote:
Very interesting, Zogler.

Never thought of it like that...so what will happen to the stock market then? Will it completely collapse or is it just an illusion that it will?
Stock market crashes follow speculative private debt bubbles. U.S. recessions and depressions (the last of which were also caused by excessive private debt) tend to come on the heels of reductions in federal debt or federal surpluses. You do the math.

If the USA government insists on cutting the deficit and the debt and a private debt bubble starts building up again, then another financial crisis will be around the corner and ready to hit. However, since the memories of how destructive leverage can be for the private sector are still fresh, the most likely scenario is a mild recession.
rekieter wrote:
maybe it is true... but how do they want to avoid inflation?
Inflation is today largely determined by production costs, mainly the cost of energy (oil). This graph clearly demonstrates that oil is the dominating factor explaining prices.
actually the graph shows deprecation of dollar, inflation of USD is in small part related to cost, it is totally related to the fact that FEd is printing money from the thin air. They even stopped publicing the M3 from 2006 lol.

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