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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 10:09 pm 
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You wrote:

'In conclusion, scoping is a combination of three things: Observation, Analyzation, and Stacking Evidence (in that order)....... You can not pull a bitch who is not attracted to you, period.'

I 100% agree with you that we should not chase women, however I would love to know what you think about these two things:

a. Did you ever meet a couple that the woman said that at first she was not attracted to the man and then suddently one day she suddently realzied that she is attracted to him and they ended up getting married?
I'm not saying that we should wait or chase women but how do you think this happens if the woman was not attracted to the guy at first? :roll:

b. How come some guys (mostly PUAs) are getting women that at first, seem like they are not intersted in them?

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Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:08 am 
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Sniper wrote:
a. Did you ever meet a couple that the woman said that at first she was not attracted to the man and then suddently one day she suddently realzied that she is attracted to him and they ended up getting married?
I'm not saying that we should wait or chase women but how do you think this happens if the woman was not attracted to the guy at first? :roll:

b. How come some guys (mostly PUAs) are getting women that at first, seem like they are not intersted in them?
I believe Kidd already answered this one (a) in this thread : http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=251 in the first reply.
Quote:
My theory is that everyone, men included, has a conscious/subconscious checklist (very debatable) that must have 50% or more of it "checked off" before attraction moves from subconscious to conscious. Men's lists are usually much shorter and physically dependent, whereas a woman's list may include more provider type things (i.e. career, education, car, status, etc.). HavPlenty (hope you can find it!) has a great example of this list in action.

A layman's example: You might be friends with a chick in high school, who swears up and down she only likes you as a friend. Meanwhile, she is dating half the football team or what not. Fast forward to the day you graduate from college and have a promising career ahead of you...and she KNOWS it. Then, all of a sudden, she professes that she just realized that you are what she has been looking for the whole time. Coincidence? NO. However, since it is subconscious, I wouldn't deal with it too harshly because she probably honestly didn't know until you realized your potential.
(b) is a combination of the same thing and also, some PUA's do buy into the women's mentality and play with it to get results, they give the woman what works not necessarily what they themselves are.. Think of it as acting.. it does not mean they will stay together.
Oh and (b) is usually a LOT of work from what I have seen

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:30 am 
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Quote:
My theory is that everyone, men included, has a conscious/subconscious checklist (very debatable) that must have 50% or more of it "checked off" before attraction moves from subconscious to conscious. Men's lists are usually much shorter and physically dependent, whereas a woman's list may include more provider type things (i.e. career, education, car, status, etc.). HavPlenty (hope you can find it!) has a great example of this list in action.

A layman's example: You might be friends with a chick in high school, who swears up and down she only likes you as a friend. Meanwhile, she is dating half the football team or what not. Fast forward to the day you graduate from college and have a promising career ahead of you...and she KNOWS it. Then, all of a sudden, she professes that she just realized that you are what she has been looking for the whole time. Coincidence? NO. However, since it is subconscious, I wouldn't deal with it too harshly because she probably honestly didn't know until you realized your potential.
Thanks peregrinus,

I get you about the PUAs and I remember the post with the quote above.
However, the few times I saw women not wanting a guy and then 'suddently' they did- did not happen when the guy suddently had a promising career ahead of him or a new social status.....

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"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"
Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:47 am 
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Sniper wrote:
Quote:
Thanks peregrinus,

I get you about the PUAs and I remember the post with the quote above.
However, the few times I saw women not wanting a guy and then 'suddently' they did- did not happen when the guy suddently had a promising career ahead of him or a new social status.....
Every woman's "list" is different...generally speaking I'm sure most women value that which you have stated. But, what does it for every individual woman varies. Maybe he finally smiled, and she values straight, clean teeth. Maybe he cracked a good joke, and she values humor or maybe he made a joke at his own expense and she values a man who doesn't take himself too seriously.

There are a lot of variables at play here...and more than half of the fun is discovering who is weak to what. It's like playing Pokemon...but in REAL LIFE WITH WOMEN! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:35 am 
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The Kidd!! wrote:
Every woman's "list" is different...generally speaking I'm sure most women value that which you have stated. But, what does it for every individual woman varies. Maybe he finally smiled, and she values straight, clean teeth. Maybe he cracked a good joke, and she values humor or maybe he made a joke at his own expense and she values a man who doesn't take himself too seriously.

There are a lot of variables at play here...and more than half of the fun is discovering who is weak to what. It's like playing Pokemon...but in REAL LIFE WITH WOMEN! :mrgreen:
Ok I see, it makes sense.
But don't women have to feel physical attraction for a man up front?
I mean for men if you are not attracted physicaly to the woman up front there is no way it will suddently come in the future.
I understand women are different and their attraction turn on is different, but I heard women say: When I met this guy I was not attracted to him at all. Then one day I fell in love with him.
That doesn't make any sense......
I understand the social status, ambitions or if she suddently saw him take a shit (I mean smile :D ) and that turned her on.....
But how is it possible for a woman to be attracted to a man after she felt no attraction at all in the beggining?

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"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"
Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:09 pm 
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Sniper wrote:
The Kidd!! wrote:
Every woman's "list" is different...generally speaking I'm sure most women value that which you have stated. But, what does it for every individual woman varies. Maybe he finally smiled, and she values straight, clean teeth. Maybe he cracked a good joke, and she values humor or maybe he made a joke at his own expense and she values a man who doesn't take himself too seriously.

There are a lot of variables at play here...and more than half of the fun is discovering who is weak to what. It's like playing Pokemon...but in REAL LIFE WITH WOMEN! :mrgreen:
Ok I see, it makes sense.
But don't women have to feel physical attraction for a man up front?
I mean for men if you are not attracted physicaly to the woman up front there is no way it will suddently come in the future.
I understand women are different and their attraction turn on is different, but I heard women say: When I met this guy I was not attracted to him at all. Then one day I fell in love with him.
That doesn't make any sense......
I understand the social status, ambitions or if she suddently saw him take a shit (I mean smile :D ) and that turned her on.....
But how is it possible for a woman to be attracted to a man after she felt no attraction at all in the beggining?
Did you read my story in "Leading By Example" about the chick who didn't realize she was sexually attracted to me until almost a year later? To that end, yes, they WILL feel physical attraction up front...but that doesn't mean that they necessarily will be aware of it. Or, even if they ARE aware of it...that doesn't mean that they are going to let YOU know that...which is why observation of subconscious subtleties is so important.

When you say she was not attracted in the beginning...are you going off of what she or her friends have said? Or are you taking the time to observe, analyze, and draw your own conclusion?

Read that particular story again...I think it will make more sense this time around. 8-)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:23 pm 
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Ok I read it again.
yea now it makes more sense.

sometimes you don't want to listen to what they 'say' because they might be attracted to you on the subconscious level and they are not aware of it...

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"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"
Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:28 pm 
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Sniper wrote:
Ok I read it again.
yea now it makes more sense.

sometimes you don't want to listen to what they 'say' because they might be attracted to you on the subconscious level and they are not aware of it...
Honestly, I NEVER listen to what they say. Talking is just for background noise and distraction while I counter her subconscious communication...CONSCIOUSLY. Once you get that down, the sky is the limit. 8-)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:50 pm 
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Damn you both, I am typing up a post and you both post things that cause me to add more to it.. see bottom for additions
The Kidd!! wrote:
they WILL feel physical attraction up front...but that doesn't mean that they necessarily will be aware of it. Or, even if they ARE aware of it...that doesn't mean that they are going to let YOU know that...which is why observation of subconscious subtleties is so important
For Sniper, I would really suggest re-reading the associated thread you started 'Leading by Example' again also. http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=251

In that thread I posted this
Quote:
Sometimes all it takes is for them to be clear of things that were distracting them, but while they are distracted it is like they are lying to themselves (to you), however when I have asked them they really seem unaware of it until later, it is really like they have not noticed then suddenly this light lights in their body/mind.
The above is them not being consciously aware of it. subconsciously it is there, it has not made its way to the surface, it has been repressed for some reason - her mind, her current life situation, her upbringing, any number of reasons.

Then we have the situation when it has been made conscious, sometimes they will feel it and be aware of it yet will also hide it from others, including you and/or their friends. There are a whole heap of reasons why, none of which will make any sense to you but which do to her, at the time. She can also forcefully suppress it consciously also for a number of reasons.

(This reminds me of another thread posting, umm where is it, ah - http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=163)

The really relevant part is here:
peregrinus wrote:
I have one that has been circling for about 6-9 months at the moment, she literally cannot talk around me, falls to pieces, her friends almost have to carry her off (and they do). I have spoken to her a few times, many months go, she just freezes and goes like a lost little girl. I have now left that alone for the time being, purely floating out a few non verbals a night now. Whenever I am in the place I run into her at, my friends always comment on her proximity to me, however she is not at the point of leaving her comfort zone - I can see her cling to it metaphorically. She will be close, but not close enough, she has a range that she sticks within. Quite interesting and curious to watch.
(This is a mature woman who runs her own business, successful and is very much socially the center of her group - see her around other people and no problem, around me she just acts like a lost girl)

Thing is , as Kidd says, under the surface we both know what is going on. We both know what will happen when she admits it to herself, lets go of her comfort blanket and engages with me. The effect is very powerful to see and experience and very hard to deny.

One of her friends told me one night (when she was not there) that the woman in question cannot talk to me as she knows she will be sunk and it will be over. That scares her, not because it will hurt her but because she has felt that before and knows how it feels and what an effect it will have on her.
The Kidd!! wrote:
She told my friend as well that, and I quote, "He makes me feel vulnerable, and I don't like that because I've been hurt so many times." Like you said, she is scared shitless of me, and does whatever she can to try to avoid the inevitable...even if that means getting drunk and fucking her ex.
Both the above quotes are times when women try to hide it, mine freezing was her trying to hide it and failing..

They are not yours to worry about, let them go, when she is ready she will realise it. As it bubbles to the surface it will be similar to a volcano erupting.



-- Additions

The Kidd!! wrote:
Sniper wrote:
Ok I read it again.
yea now it makes more sense.

sometimes you don't want to listen to what they 'say' because they might be attracted to you on the subconscious level and they are not aware of it...
Honestly, I NEVER listen to what they say. Talking is just for background noise and distraction while I counter her subconscious communication...CONSCIOUSLY. Once you get that down, the sky is the limit. 8-)
Right, having a day of memories, car is in the shop so am at home today, too much time on the internet.. Anyway this reminded me of a conversation I had via email with you Shay a while ago, let me try to dig it up. ok here it is, found it, explaining a situation I had at the time:
peregrinus wrote:
Went to the theatre last night, was invited by two more mature women I know and thought “why not, haven’t been in ages”.

While sitting in the bar before the show, was observing the women, just soaking them up (including the two I was with), after about 5 minutes I noticed the noise increasing dramatically, really noticeable increase. A fair portion of the women in the bar were competing for attention, not with what they were saying but by their actions and volume.

I was mentally filtering out the words, not listening to them at all, I think you will understand this. I was purely focused on the level of energy coming out in their actions and voices – the voices kept going higher and higher in energy and volume till the whole bar was this mass of voices competing. You could hardly hear yourself think.

I ended up surrounded by older women where I was sitting, had this really sweet 80yr old woman and her friend come and push their way in to sit next to me at some point (she looked as though she would have been a stunner when younger and was SO natural, made my heart melt when I looked into her eyes). She just sat there staring at me in amazement.

She started talking across me to the two I was with, asking them about me. I was observing but not taking part and she seemed to like this from her reactions.

At this point a number of the women who were standing around us (the bar was crammed, small bar for theater) turned to face us and continued facing us, the volume went up very much at this point in the bar. The bar was practically vibrating with energy.

We ended up with no men within short range, only women.

Anyway, this goes on for about 30 minutes, till we are called into the theater for the show, so we get up and I say goodbye to the two old women and go with the two I am with to get seated. For some reason I ended up on the end of the three when we sat down and guess who has the seat next to me.. This sweet little woman, she spent the entire performance nestled against my arm, in a way that she was very comfortable.

-

Half time break comes (intermission) and we head down to the bar for a drink, same situation almost happens again, but this time a group of young girls (19-20 ish) are within about 10 feet of us and then sit down right in front of us at the table as soon as we pick a table. They spent the whole intermission talking to the two I was with and the two older women (who had also joined us).

I was not dragged into the conversation and was observing them all, not the words but the energy. They were quizzing the other women about me, basically the whole conversation during the 20 minute break was about me but did not include me – they were watching my reactions to what they said and testing me verbally and indirectly. The more this went on the more their energy rose it was like watching them get pumped up (if you get what I mean).

The younger ones were really rising in energy and their natural side was coming out more and more during the break as they talked to the 4 women now surrounding me. It was lovely to watch.


Then we got called back in for part2.

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:20 pm 
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Peregrinus, your post coincides perfectly with this thread I just started: http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=259 :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:21 pm 
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thanks peregrinus :)

now that I'm putting all the dots together everything makes sense.
You know I had some arguments with guys on realm who kept saying that your 'energy' will
take care of everything.

I kept telling them that there will always be other factors involved (like geography, social pressure, mentality, amount of social conditioning, etc.....) and that just showing up with the right energy can't take care of everything.

Some guys were so caught up in the energy fantasy that they dismissed what I said saying I don't get it and that I need to keep grounding :lol:

I think at this point most guys on realm have already realzied that what I said was true, I wish I was wrong and that Energy could really take care and always bypass all the other stuff. But in reality it can't be that way

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"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"
Sometimes it's a little better to travel than to arrive” \ Robert M. Pirsig


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