Natural Freedom

I guess I could see this, and re-reading there's not a lot of detail, but I guess it depends on the guy in prodigy's situation, if it were me, I would help her out of the tight spot, go on with my day, and think nothing more of it.

Granted, it would have been obvious to me that she wasn't all up on me, but just wanting to get out of this tight spot, and I would have just been doing a kind deed, with no expectations or hope that she was attracted to me.

EDIT: I can totally see how this could be some bitch grinning and wanting the attention, nothing on her conscience if these guys decide to jump prodigy for "stealing their girl" - guess I'm just not sure with the lack of detail and not being there able to feel out the situation

Ok, I was totally reading into this as the girl feeling very uncomfortable and concerned for her safety.

Thinking about it, with her just grinning this was probably not the case. For me I just don't seem to find myself in this situation, and wouldn't even acknowledge if it were the case.

...and women prey and depend on that goodness in your heart to sometimes get them out of situations they got themselves into. It truly is a case-by-case thing. That said, I stand by my read of Prodigy's predicament...which means I'm sure 'Grinus feels the same.

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING.

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!

**I edited out the "me helping girls out of awkward, uncomfortable situations out the goodness of my heart" part because I felt that wasn't expressing what I truly meant (and more deals with me being out with girls I already know, and them not bringing this on themselves)


I'm just going to duck out of this one, because I quickly skimmed prodigy's situation as a safety concern for the girl, and after a re-read definitely agree with you guys. I don't do charity for women, and if it were me would have just kept reading my book, paying no attention to other people's business, maybe chuckling to myself about the awkward situation this not so smart girl found herself in

Prodigy, just listen to The Kidd and Peregrinus

**so that The Kidd's comment makes sense

OK, A few things I have to respond to.. I see where you are coming from Stephen, I feel I want to point these out though: This is what I said.. She was looking out for her safety.

NOT YOURS!
Yes and no.

This comes back to observation and situational dynamics.

Was she placing you in a position of danger?, was she inviting you into one?, were you walking straight into one? I agree with this, however! I would rephrase it:
"Saw you as more cool/normal/safe than the other guys"
or rather
"Saw you as less unsafe than the other guys" which by definition means she was potentially setting you up as the sacrificial lamb. Right!


onto the second case, note the highlights: You both are potentials.

They initially picked her up as a target.

She then points you out as another one.

At that point it is purely down to their balls and YOU! not HER!
Really?

She thought they were dangerous, that much is obvious. What does that tell you?

What do you think she would have done if it was the other way around? Really, honestly, truthfully?

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

Wow 'Grinus...I see you brought the pressure cooker with you today.

It goes without saying that I co-sign 100%...oops...looks like I said it!

_________________
EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING.

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!

so after I really read what KIDD, Pere'G, Scarf and Stephen P had said, I did see their point in the situation I had given. my ego was still in the way (that's why I didn't catch on KIDD, ignorance really is bliss), I had thought that because the female chose to smile and keep eye contact for min. I was in (that she liked me), not taking into account that she just wanted to get out of the situation she was in. I see that now

I failed to properly observe and analyze the situation. failed to take into account that the female was uncomfortable with the pestering and failed to see that it was after she was overwhelmed ( 2 against 1) with the 2 of them hitting on her, that she turned to me for a way out.
probably if I had interfered I wouldn't even be typing this right now.
now that I am writing this, I remember that scene from the Movie Hitch where Will Smith's character did it to bail out Eva Mendes's Character.

I did fail to mention that after the female had gotten off the bus, that one of the dudes took a particular liking to stare me down at different intervals during the journey. every time I looked up up from my book, I saw him looking at me. didn't really pay attention to it then, but trust me, I can see the danger that surrounded the situation now.
I honestly have never been in a situation like that before ( well none that I can remember) , but I am glad that I posted it and for the direction,
oh this is a lesson I won't be forgetting anytime soon

I can honestly say that my arrogance had led to my defeat.

_________________
"I'd rather have no bitch than a half a bitch" Iceberg Slim

Hmmm, so this is eye-opening and your post gives me a lot to consider Peregrinus on human nature, instincts and whatnot
I wish I would have read Prodigy's post more thoroughly before jumping to conclusions and posting , however

This is a good thought exercise for me as I just don't find myself in potentially dangerous situations because of the skills I have developed in observation, understanding situational dynamics, combined with intuition. And couldn't be damned to put myself at risk just for some tail, let alone a little attention from something with a nice tail.

Back to the story of the experience I found myself in

I can't say I would act any differently if I found myself in that situation again. My own safety is always number 1. I was aware of my surroundings, there was distance between us and the bums, and the door to the filled bar was right there.
If the roles were reversed, I wouldn't expect whatsoever nor rely on a small female for any sort of physical help if things went bad with other physically stronger males, but rather my own wits and smarts and lack of needing to prove anything to get myself to safety.

Just because she wouldn't help me out, doesn't mean I still don't hold myself to higher expectations, barring any risks to personal safety considered above all.

And prior to any of this, I would first have confidence in myself to preemptively avoid/not put myself in a dangerous situation all together.

This is an excellent point quoted above, one to ponder. And I thought I was cold hearted when it comes to views on the inherent good within the opposite sex

I think I regret posting hastily, eh but it makes good discussion

Nope, I believe I'm the resident cold hearted playa around these here parts.

_________________
EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING.

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!

Firstly Prodigy, let me say I am really glad you posted your question/situation.
It provoked an interesting and valuable discussion. I am also glad that StephenP contributed in the way he did, it spurred things on well
Realising this is an important step Prodigy. I also take my hat off to you for admitting and accepting this. BRAVO!
I am personally glad that you left this out of the original post and only posted it now.
It was good that the discussion took part without this and interesting/valuable to others to see it now.

Now I am going to skip over to StephenP:
I find it really interesting that when asked questions about the situation and HER, you completely avoided answering them and instead answered questions about YOURSELF that I did not ask. Indeed.
Agreed, I'll leave that to you Kidd.
I do enjoy cooking occasionally so will play with my pressure cooker now and then

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

Me too

Onto your questions directly
I'm still here unharmed, so no
Not sure, They came to me and into my vascinity
No I was just standing there smoking a cigarette

Maybe not, i dont' know??
She would have probably acted like she didn't know me, or if she saw me coming toward her would have gotten the fuck out of a potentially threatening situation and quickly ducked back into the safety of the bar. She would have seen me as a threat too.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, so honestly, this thread was pissing me the fuck off...until I answered that last question. I guess first of all. Had there been no girl involved and I saw these two shady characters coming down the empty street, I would have probably put my cigarette out and went back in the bar before they got close.

However, with the girl in the situation I'm struggling with what the right way to deal with this would be. Because, I was not threatened or feeling unsafe seeing a pretty girl come around the corner, maybe a half a block down. Shortly after the two bums came about 15 ft behind her, who I would have avoided. So it was sort of a clash of a safe normal person, and two potentially dangerous people. I guess at night, in a dark empty street the smart thing seeing anyone would have been to duck back into the bar.

But then again, where's the line for living your life in fear. I guess it's just properly and quickly assessing the situation.

What would you have done in this scenario 'grinus? And what would your suggestions be for handling this situation if someone else found themselves in it?

i think stevenP did good, i would do the same, but it's good to know what's really going on, maybe i would be more cold in a similar situation in the future, i have see women being hit by her husbands or boyfriends, and i don't do nothing because if you get in the middle, she and her husband or boyfriend will beat the shit out of you, becasue for them, it's not your bussiness

Right!

I am not suggesting you do the same. I got that feeling previously, it told me there was something underneath this.

My intent was not to piss you off, it was to reach that which was underneath, unfortunately doing that involved raising your hackles somewhat. Which is more important in this situation? I would say the potentially dangerous ones. They all need observing and assessing, however divide your resources wisely.

You also do not know what happened previous to them turning the corner.
Some fear is healthy, it is a natural reaction. Uncontrollable fear is not healthy.

Feel your fear, accept it and ask yourself why you feel it, observe your surroundings and see what has sparked it, is it valid? are you overreacting? is it for a good reason? I would have observed the situation, as I would have been doing before they came along, during the events as they unfolded, continually, listen to my gut, listen to my intuition, continue assessing the situation and respond appropriately to what I felt, saw and thought.

Given the situation you describe, I would have stayed near the door (as you did) and let her come to me. I would not have gone away from the bar towards her. I would not immediately have ducked back into the bar, as them being observed would temper their actions, however the bar was there if needed - not just to go in, but to bring others out.

If she had been in trouble, I would NOT have waded in alone, I would have got backup from the bar. because (a) more witnesses to what was happening (b) the two would be more likely to clear off quicker (c) I do not know what they are capable of.

I can say, it would make no difference to my actions how hot or attractive she was or how young or old she was.

It comes down to observation and situational awareness, listening to your gut and applying logic to the whole lot.

Note: you still answered the first three questions from your perspective, after the fact, not before.

also, to rant... regarding your quote: This is a nightmare to wade into, have seen people make this mistake. More often that not as you say, they will both turn on you for interfering. They will temporarily forget their dispute and gang up on you, then go back to fighting amongst themselves afterwards. Quite bizarre but have seen it too many times to believe it will be any other way.

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

*nods in agreement*

_________________
EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING.

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!

wow this whole thread started on a different topic and turned to a different one. That's cool, I'm glad it did because there are great peals of wisdom here

Now I want to add something else...
sometimes we might win the first battle but lose or live in fear from the next one- so in the end it's not worth it. Let me give an example:

I go into this pub that I love and visit often. I go outside for a smoke or just for some air....
I see this girl and two guys are bothering her- let's say she was not in danger at the moment and if she is she can come closer to me and when I'm near the door I can always call for backup or get her inside where it's more safe.

But I want to be a Hero and show how macho I am....

So I go towards these guys and threaten them to leave her alone. Now let's say that these guys didn't have knifes or maybe they did but I still kicked the shit out of them. Yey I'm a real hero and macho- I feel great

But two weeks later I run into these guys again in that pub or somewhere else only this time, they are with three or four other guys. They remember me but now they are 5 or 6 and maybe some of them are carrying knifes. oops now I'm really fucked how am I going to get out of this now?

Even if scenario two didn't happen- it can happen...

so in the end: it's not worth it unless the girl is in immediate danger and the only way to save her is to go and jump on these two goons right now....
But even then no one can promise you will get out safe....

_________________
"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"

Dude, Peregrinus, (see me quoting you below and my answer) I was really, really, REALLY pissed off with what especially you, and then The Kidd agreeing. I have no problems getting girls - but I'm now thinking you and THe Kidd are on a whole new level.

Let me preface this by saying I went out tonight very jaded by what this thread showed, and I was actually repulsed yet happy by what my responses to inherent human nature showed. Girls giving me the eye...ya ya normal. But, alpha dudes trying to be cool, asking for smokes, trying to show me up, I was angry with what you posted in that response earlier so just gave them the thumbs up and ignored - very funny how they start qualifying themselves to me. I ignore more and they try more.
Wow, you are right. She would have avoided me, straight up - seen me as a threat.

So...taking the situation at hand. What would you have done? Social dynamics understanding put aside. Would you have stepped back in the bar. Been real and said you didn't know the chic? Stayed out or gotten yourself out of it all? Technicalities aside?

-----------------------------

I really wanted to get mean, confrontational and cheeky to your response, but after a night of pretending like I was listening to my friends, but really mulling this over in my head the whole time, thanks for being real and helping me to face something that I didn't want to.

The girl would not of helped me out, but I still feel what I did was right. I'm just not sure. My mind feels twisted because, do I help the girl out, do I skip out of the situation, do I act like I don't know her?
It's so funny how deep it goes........

(Edit: and let me say, the fact that she was "pretty" carried no weight on me, she is another person, these dudes were douches, it could have been a nerdy weak dude and I would have done the same)

Edit2: Ok, gotchya

Edit3:

...and you're just now figuring this out?

In all seriousness, it's the fact that cats like 'Grinus and I actively run scenarios, including ones like this, in our brains CONSTANTLY, have fully accepted The Matrix that we live in, and can handle any and all truths, regardless of how disheartening, depressing or foundation splitting they might be is what has allowed us to be how we are today. We might think about the steak from time to time, but we dare not eat it, because we KNOW IT IS BULLSHIT.

The best part is I told 'Grinus offline that you would end up thanking him for that slap in the face...I just didn't know how long it would take.

_________________
EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING.

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!

Maybe it's a little offtopic, but Sniper is hell right - Once you start making yourself seen fighting, the fighting never ends. The problem is even if you win, the more your name is known, more people want to fight you. More and mroe dangerous people as time goes. And only way out is to get yourself beaten by Somebody (big capital intended) or get out of town. I have a few friends who can fight pretty well (One is ex-boxer, the other knows karate and judo damn well) and they got in unlucky situations like this one.

@StephenP & anyone else who is reading this,

I must tell you that The Kidd had given me a harsh wake up call twice or three times in the past. I was Really pissed off and I think I even told him to F** off once.

But no matter how I felt about it in that moment, in the end he was always spot on\right. And I realzied he was just looking out for Me. So after I put my ego aside I always thanked him...

yes the steak looks great from time to time and it's very tempting to fall back to the matrix. But I know that if I do fall back at one point it's going to hurt as fuck....

_________________
"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"

Yup..
Three 'really's - that is quite strong. Must have hit quite a nerve. But then we know it did, I am glad it did, it was something that needed to come out. Interesting eh? and entertaining.

"The less you want something the more you shall get it offered to you"
"Isn't it funny when you don't want anything, it get's forced down your throat? Even at a party, dinner or picnic, people are trying to feed you even when you say your full." I was expecting something along those lines, if there was more resistance to come. Glad to see it did not come to that, though if it needed to then it would have. You are very welcome StephenP. I appreciate the sentiment Very much so, the deeper you go, the deeper you see it goes.
I agree with this fully! Indeed
You did the same to myself also.
I accepted it for what it was, resistance.

-

Now, to everyone, what else have you seen in this thread?, it has been a really good example of it.. I will give you a clue, it is something mentioned by Kidd quite a bit.
[No answers required, it is something for you to ponder on]

_________________
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.