Natural Freedom

Okay guys, there's this seed I planted a while ago that's beginning to blossom, and I'm starting to get scared.

I met this woman briefly a couple of times during the past six years, and the last time she was constantly talking about how she loves men; how they take charge and sweep the girl away, etc. And also how frustrated she was because she sometimes liked to fuck her friends in the past, but they kept getting emotionally invested and wanted to be exclusive.

I would have made my move right there, but the trouble is she has a boyfriend, and I apparently have some hangups around that. She brought him up a couple of times, only to either psychonanalyze how he's depressed, or complain about different ways she has to take care of his needs and that she's basically his mother. They tried living together but that didn't work, so they see eachother once a week, spending their time arguing.

She got my number from a mutual friend, and started messaging me about how similar we were and how no one understands her. I don't have the stamina for texting so I replied like once a week with how I see the real her etc, instead of boring small talk, to try and make it more taxing for her to respond too. I prefer to communicate IRL

It worked and she hasn't texted in over a month. Now we're soon going to be living together in the same house with a couple of friends a few days for a friend's birthday party, and I'll probably get some opportunities. And I'm scared. I'm confident in my own ability, but the fact that she has a boyfriend throws me off. Do any of you have experience with this sort of situation?

Basically I'm looking for advice how to navigate this (and reassurance that my gut is working ) I know that The Kidd!! is working on a book about the practicalities of being with women who are taken, but until then. Feel free to share success stories too

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Instead of screaming at the clouds when it starts raining, try opening your umbrella

Why?
what is it that you feel... what goes through your mind?
Please explain?
Why are you scared?
What does your mind see in the future?
what does your mind see in the past?

..
Separate from the above... I see a number of red flags in your text.

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

(What opportunities? )
If such a woman is to say yes, I know myself well enough to say no.

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♫♫♩♫‿◦

It's the kind of fear I have before going on a rollercoaster. I know in my heart of hearts I'll be fine, but this is a particularly scary rollercoaster and I'm scared to even get on it.

I'm also still pretty inexperienced with different women. It used to be because I thought no woman could want me and all that, but after learning to talk to them and finding out what they're like, now it's more that I don't enjoy the company of most women enough to make it worth all the hassle. But this one is different. I don't know if she qualifies as an X-factor, but I always wanted to use that term

I'm not sure I can trust my thoughts when I actively think about it. It feels like I'm only trying to come up with reasons, but no one really fits. I think about her rejecting me, others not approving of my advancements towards her, the boyfriend coming to beat me up, etc. All these would suck in their own way, but they don't match with the general feeling in my body.
I have a strong inclination of doing "what's right" and I've learnt that it's wrong to steal someone's girlfriend. This messes with my head, and it also makes me question the evidence I've stacked, because "she isn't single so it can't be true"

I do know that she can choose whomever she wants, but that would mean having to accept that I might be better than someone else. And you're not supposed to think like that either. But then again, if they didn't match, why are they still together after 7 years? I'm still brainwashed and confused in this area
I'll try to fill in some details and see if it lowers or raises more flags.

Her and I think completely alike. Talking to her is like talking to myself. I've never met anyone else, man or woman, that even comes close. For the first time in my life I don't have to edit myself before speaking.

When we were hanging out, she complained about having to deal with bad things all guys do in relationships and in bed, and our mutual friend corroborated that I wasn't like that at all. She sat flabbergasted jaw agape that a man like me could even exist.

I don't like texting in general as I said, but I specifically didn't want to text with her because it doesn't feel natural to not be in the same room when communicating at this deep level. It's too emotionally draining.
And it also makes me think of her when there's nothing I can do about it at the moment, instead of getting on with my life

I should clarify we're both diagnosed neurodivergents. Her boyfriend isn't, and he constantly tries to change her and make her behave "normal." Their arguments seem to boil down to them fundamentally not understanding eachother

An example:
He arrives for their weekly visit at her house all mad after something happening work, storms in and says

• "Don't talk to me!"

And she just says okay, and walks off to her bedroom to play video games. After six hours he comes by, pouting:

• "I'm only here for today. It's you who always say you want closeness so why didn't you come to me?"

Argument ensues.

She has proudly explained several times how she's figured out what's wrong with him, but never once what she likes about him or anything good he's done.

She is constantly talking about deep and complicated subjects, and everyone around her laments that she won't stop and have smalltalk about the weather, etc instead.

I suspect he's tired of her shit, whereas hers is precisely the kind of shit I've been looking for.

So I see a past where I am alone and unseen, and a future where I am understood and accepted on a level I didn't think possible

_________________
Instead of screaming at the clouds when it starts raining, try opening your umbrella

If all this goes to shit, it's at least an opportunity to get to know myself better

_________________
Instead of screaming at the clouds when it starts raining, try opening your umbrella

[/quote] why?

Valuable realization.
is this one worth the hassle? you dont know yet
so what is that feeling... if it is not one of those its something else... a process of elimination comes to mind..

those are two different separate things

the evidence is separate from the other part, imho, they are not tied.
The simple answer... because he offers her value.
she gets value from him, in some way.

what that is i have no clue, it is there somewhere... otherwise there would be no reason
hmm

take a step back, take a breath and pause
personally, i would disregard all of this

a lawyer would call it 'heresay' https://www.dictionary.com/browse/hearsay
and so would i...

Heard too many over the years, some were mostly true, most were mostly fantasy twisted to her viewpoint.
there are others out there as well

I would encourage you to explore your feelings and thoughts around this subject, as you say, to learn more about yourself..

I would also refer to Jared's comment earlier this in my mind is an important question to ask yourself...
as you mention above that you have reservations about being 'that' person.

and I could also say, just because something could happen does not mean it has to, or should.

you can say 'i have a headache tonight'

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

It has a height requirement, in the way that the experience I want requires me to open myself up to someone completely, leaving me vulnerable and exposed. And if I don't, it would definitely not be worth it.
But I've been punished in the past every time I've shown even a small part, so it's an intimidating prospect. I guess I'm putting more at stake, so there's more to "lose." That fear feels closer to home. I suppose I'll find out if I'm someone who enjoys high-stakes gambling True. I would guess that she is, but the general rule of women seems to be that the hassle VS enjoyment ratio increases with time. I'm gonna remember to monitor this I need to remember my basic training in live conditions I keep forgetting that's an option I'll defer to you here. I've too little experience, and one of my faults is applying my own standards of telling the Truth™ onto others. The only thing we know is that she feels the need to bad-mouth him for some reason I should say, due to health reasons I have a very limited ability to even leave the house, so that skews my judgement. I'm like the guys in that experiment where they're locked in an empty room with a button that gives them a painful electric shock, and they prefer pushing it instead of sitting and staring into the void. Right now it feels like something happening at all is better than nothing
But thank you, I needed to hear that. I also keep buying candy just because it's on sale, even though it's not good for me. I'm gonna find out if I truly want the candy first this time

I also suspect I will return to your posts in the future to gain more understanding with The Power of Hindsight, and I'm all for it

_________________
Instead of screaming at the clouds when it starts raining, try opening your umbrella

I may be wrong, for some reason this brought to mind too fast, too quick.
skipping stages, pacing

and finding out what is on the other end first

why do you have to lay all your cards out at the start...
applying your standards to others is a recipe for misunderstandings imho.

possibly to see how you react?

my focus would be the friends and the party

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

I'm embarrassed to say, I don't know what the different stages are

Up until recent years, I've been incredibly passive to the point of missing every single opportunity to connect with someone, and it's very possible I'm over-correcting That's probably where my fear comes in. Go all in immediately so I don't have to keep playing the scary game And a good recipe at that That could be it! I was pretty nonplussed (both dictionary and US definitions) Mine turned out to be too.

In addition to Your guidance, things developed in a way that helped me touch grass, and I feel more indifferent moving forwards

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Instead of screaming at the clouds when it starts raining, try opening your umbrella

[/quote] you may not, you think

you just passed that big ball of scary to the other person

you know, from memory, the really good horror films had a real slow burn build up... rarely did they go full on into the endgame
Expand and explain... how are you thoughts different now as compared to then..

what did you learn...
what do you want to learn/explore more..

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

And I was hoping I could get away with it too Tension and release. I know it from music theory, but I never actually realized it's a universal rule for basically every type of experience.

But you still escalate the action a bit, dropping hints with some intense Jaws music from time to time and then pull back, right? Before finally revealing the shark Then, I had let my inner workings be slowly worn down for years by the mutual friend of the woman and I. (Whose party we were invited to)

Let's call the woman Linda from Evil Dead, and the mutual friend Cindy from Scary Movie.

Cindy kept telling me how I should save Linda like I had once saved her. (Cindy was single at the time we crossed paths, depressed and broken, and had given up on men forever) She explained how me and Linda were meant for each other. And in the end, I let myself believe that.

But of course, Linda didn't attend the party. She had to stay home because her boyfriend had finally agreed to start talking about their relationship last Christmas, and he had just taken a 2 week break from her to "gather his strength" in order to deal with her conversation. And his return sadly coincided with the party. (allegedly)

This was Cindy's 30th birthday party, and they hadn't seen each other for 6 months. And Linda chose her boyfriend that she sees all the time over her. I peaked behind the curtain and the magic was gone. I lost all respect for her at that point.

Linda later revealed to us that she sees no friends at all, and is afraid to even go to the store. She never leaves the house, and hasn't had anyone in her life but the boyfriend and her mother for years and years.

She's miserable, and I do feel for her. It sucks to be in that place.
I learned how quickly feelings for someone can shift. I found my way back to indifference. I don't care if I never hear from her again, and I likewise don't mind the occasional text. And of course, this shift in me made her desperately overwhelm me with messages just like You teach.

Linda is the first person to actively seek my number out and try to get to know me, so I felt obligated to return the favour and put a lot of effort into my texts. This was a mistake, because it wasn't something I really wanted to do.
Recently she wanted my help because she felt fear of losing me. And I felt like helping her. I did not say that I wouldn't leave her. Just guided her to the conclusion that it's okay to be scared, and a completely natural feeling to have when you care about someone.

I also reaffirmed that you truly can't trust what people say with their words. Even those who "never lie" will only tell the truth that they themselves believe. I'm pretty okay at seeing what people's real meanings are in person, but over text I suck. If I'm to hang out with people, I want it to be IRL.

Now that I don't want something from her, I don't feel the need to find the exact right phrase and tone to perfectly convey what I mean, while not being too forward, too backwards, etc. I just say whatever I feel like in the moment, and often don't say anything at all. This must be the proverbial Space I've heard so much about, because it gets filled every time

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Instead of screaming at the clouds when it starts raining, try opening your umbrella

hahahaha

i bet you did
of course, 1h 21m of teasing before you finally see it... so many buildups and releases in between, then finally, the drop

music theory as well... well you have a headstart if you understand that
the more i live the more i think it is connected to everything....

tension and release comes up so often in so many ways
oh my... big red flag for me there
curious timing indeed
on some levels, she chose to be there... rather than the party.
from your previous message that sounds like quite a change.

and yes, things can change quite rapidly with new information... surprisingly so
Ironic isnt it.... strikes me as ironic
it sounds like you have learned about yourself from this experience and what not to do in the future..

valuable realisation imho and one worth exploring.

and the point on about in person versus distance communication... more clarity on you
THIS!!!!!!!

ok, possibly a few too many exclamation marks

the difference between the two states

you now have recent IRL examples, fresh in your memory, with the same person...
You have a taste

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

From personal experience having done this a couple times, if it's not you it's gonna be someone else.

If you wanna dip your wick, understand it's not a solid foundation for anything more.

In her mind, you're just the next guy lined up before she dumps her boyfriend.

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"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."