Natural Freedom

We discuss romantic/sexual relationships constantly on this forum, and rightfully so. However, we hardly speak about platonic relationships.

How do you folks handle relationships with your platonic friends? How do your relationships with your friends compare to your non-platonic relationships? Do you have different standards? Would you tolerate more from your best friend than your lovers? Do you forgive misuderstandings and foul play, or do you punish second-class behavior harshly?

I have been friends with my best friend since we were 6/7. We are now 23/24, so obviously our friendship has a long history. Also, my mom was best friends with his mother, who became very close to me as well. My father had no family, and my mother's family was really shitty to us so my mother and I were more or less adopted by her family. For many years now, we've spent our Christmases and Thanksgivings with them.

Other friendships came and went, but I always stayed friends with him. However, as time went on, I found it very difficult to continue the friendship. In middle school, he was very immature, perverted, and sometimes violent. He stole from me on occasion as well. As it turned out, he was eventually diagnosed with an illness, and was sent to the state mental hospital. Even so, I promised I would stay by my best friend, as only a "lesser person" would have given up on him. I knew if I were him, I would need a friend like nothing else. So, I hung out with him on his visitation weekends and even visited him from time to time at the hospital.

He came home from the hospital, and though he still wasn't his old self, we still remained close. However, he wasn't driven at all in life, and I eventually went to uni which left him behind in our home town. I returned only on the holidays, and everytime I returned a little wise and a little stronger, an he remained the same, choosing to play video games instead of doing something with himself. As I matured, I found myself unable to relate to him any longer. And then his mother abrubtly died. I didn't realize it then, but she was the lynchpin in my relationship with the family, and after she died we all slowly became distant.

This last Christmas after dinner, my best friend's mother's widowed husband proposed to his girlfriend. It bothered me deeply because he is going to have a new family, and the rest of us are going to be left behind. However, I thought for sure that I would still have my best friend.

One night, I was staying with him at his place. He is really into this game called League of Legends, which is his obsession. I made a couple of jokes about it, and he suddenly flew into a violent rage. He didn't actually hit me, but things were thrown. I left directly after the incident. I had to come back, because there was no way I could get a hotel at the time. Things were awkward, and then he approached me on the issue like he was going to apologize, but instead I got the excuse "dude, I'm almost good enough to be pro". I felt fucking sick. 'Do I really matter that little to you? I've been your friend through all kinds of bullshit including your crazy house shit and your thievery, plus I accepted you for all your faults and you don't even think I deserve an apology?' were just some of the thoughts that went through my head. I didn't look him in the eye at all for the rest of my time there.

If he had been any other person, I would have parted ways with him long ago.

The value theory that gets spouted a lot around here has given me a better perspective on this issue. There is an exchange of value between us. We are friends because we both bring something to the table that is valuable to the other. I'm not sure what value I have to him, other than I show up at his place to hang out a couple times a year. As for him.... I honestly think that the only value he has to me is the fact that he's my best friend. I never had many friends, and he was the only one I met who I ever considered worthy of the title of best friend up until recently, which makes him a rare commodity to me. Other than that, he has nothing except frozen pizza on which he allows me to feast. My gut says I should cast aside this unruly fellow who has disrespected me and has nothing to offer me at all except history, but at the same time, it seems extremely cold to abruptly cut my ties with a person who has been my friend for almost 2 decades....

What would you guys do in my case?

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“I learned this, at least, by my experiment; that if one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. . . ."

-Thoreau's Walden

Need I say more?

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

'time' in and by itself- is not a factor of value.

I'll use this story as an example: What if you are best friends with someone for 20 years and then one day you find out that he was doing your wife behind your back?

Now back to the question. I had 2 good friend (we were friends for 15 years) who decided to end the friendship with me one day- because they felt that there was no more value in Me to give them.

Was I angry at the time?
Yes

Looking back would I do the same if I felt that these guys were not giving me any value?
Yes

bottom line:

Time (in and by itself) is not a factor of value.

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"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"

I'm about the same age as you, and I have had some lack lustre friends in my time, most of them fair weather. When they needed me I was always there for them but when I needed them I was alone.

Once I got myself some self esteem I let those bad friends go, because the only reason I kept them in the first place was because I had no other options.

I still don't have a lot of options but am still careful with the kind of people I spend my time with.

I can understand the whole history thing as well I had a friend who I had a lot of history with, I was giving more than I was getting though and the friendship wasn't fulfilling, it was just nice feeling like I had a friend.

The friendship has to be fulfilling to both of you, think Win/Win!

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Don't be sexist, bitches hate that.

You guys make good points for sure... Thanks for responding...

A friendship isn't about what it was or has been, it's about what it is presently.

I now realize that time alone does not make a friendship, and that being friends for just for the sake of friendship is a very weak basis for any friendship.

His behavior was very low-class and immature, and it showed that I was clearly overestimating the exchange of value between us.

At the risk of appearing condescending and/or arrogant, I will have to dismiss my best friend of almost 2 decades because of his rudeness and foul behavior. I can't possibly be serious about having the best in life for myself and learning to love myself if I have friends who show me such a high level of disrespect.

_________________
“I learned this, at least, by my experiment; that if one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. . . ."

-Thoreau's Walden

^THIS!

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In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject.He keeps chiseling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Perfection is not when there is no more to add,but no more to take away.

Kidd always says treat people accordingly, it applies to all areas of your life.

You don't have to cut ties on Facebook or delete them from your phone and such. But you need to decide if your self-respect is worth more than a poor friend ( who in my eyes isn't your friend).

Just step back, your better than that. Don't talk to them or anything, if he brings it up tell it how it is.

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"The heart is deep beyond all things, and it is the man. Even so, who can know him."

That was basically the plan. There's no need to bring The Drama Llama into all of this, nor do I need to burn any bridges. I'm just going to kick back and see what happens. I don't expect much of a reaction, actually. However, if he asks, I'll tell him what time it is for sure.

_________________
“I learned this, at least, by my experiment; that if one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. . . ."

-Thoreau's Walden

I must say this value exchange theory way of thinking has really improved my ability to assess relationships. It's a very logical way of looking at things, and I never knew how much emotion dominated the way I handle relationships until I absorbed the message of value exchange.

However, I fear I may have to dismiss yet another friend, because I now realise that our rough relationship merely stems from a weak value exchange.

I think I'm beginning to "pay the cost" of having a growing "pimp tight" mentality. This road seems like it will be a lonely one.

_________________
“I learned this, at least, by my experiment; that if one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. . . ."

-Thoreau's Walden

...which explains the necessity of becoming YOUR OWN BEST FRIEND.

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EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING.

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!

It is

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"The heart is deep beyond all things, and it is the man. Even so, who can know him."

At least we have each other

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~There's weakness in the hearts of all humans are you afraid to acknowledge yours... ~
Mr. Todo

Yeah... Good thing I prefer being alone by default... Honestly though, I only feel like my own friend instead of my own best friend. I feel this will change in due time though.

It just feels odd to dismiss friends so quickly, especially since I've spent most of my life trying to gain friendship instead. However, I realize that trying to be a "mack" when you're supposed to be a pimp is like a goldfish trying to swim upstream with the salmon. Lol that's a bad anology and I don't even know if that counts as an analogy but I'm tired so fuck it you can take it or leave it LOL.

Thanks for all the great responses. On the real.

_________________
“I learned this, at least, by my experiment; that if one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. . . ."

-Thoreau's Walden

♥

_________________
“I learned this, at least, by my experiment; that if one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. . . ."

-Thoreau's Walden

This seems Gay....

W o r d!

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GMST

It is lonely but it is liberating as well. Because when someone doesn't realize that people are only after his value he might spend a lot of time and energy trying to please others often at the cost of his own
happiness- heck, I have been doing it for years

But the thing is- when people don't feel as if you have value they will leave you no matter how much energy you put in trying to please them.

So becoming your own best friend and knowing people are only after your value is liberating because then you are living for yourself and you stop trying so hard to please people....

And yes, being pimp tight applies to all areas of life. That's why we said that being pimp tight is not about sleeping with loads of women.

_________________
"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"

Yep! It's not a technique...it's a mindset.

_________________
EVERYTHING in life is conditional...EVERYTHING.

Pimposophy Revisited is now finally available on Amazon in all territories!

I can see that now... It's been a bittersweet path so far, and I'm really not sure what to think about it all... I'm really absorbing the message, and I'm proud of that, but at the same time, I feel a slight weight in my heart. I really think what I've learned has and will continue to be a big game changer for me in good way, but I'm a bit nervous about how it's going to affect me in the short and long term emotionally. So far though, the benefits I've gained have been worth the price.

Seeing relationships in terms of an exchange of value has really calmed my mind. I'm a person who takes my relationships with friends and family very seriously, and so when events upset those relationships, it can make me feel quite bothered. But now that I understand the value theory somewhat, I don't have to look at things from an emotional viewpoint and sort through endless sentiment and bullshit. I must only ask myself "what is the value exchange between us, and how has it been disturbed?". Once I figure that out, I can rectify the problem or dismiss the other person. I imagine this is what The Kidd means when he says he can shut off his emotions and logically analyze any given situation.

Sniper said this path is a liberating one, and I would agree for sure. For years, I've been looking for acceptance from friends and lovers. I really believed in "love" and "friendship", and I would have done anything to be the rich, popular, social, handsome guy with lots of friends and women. I've been striving for years to be accepted by others, which has caused me some of the greatest suffering imaginable, because I couldn't meet my own expectations or the standards of other people. But now that I know that "love" and "friendship" are basically fantastic ideals, I understand that pursuing such things would basically be ineffectual. This is extremely liberating, because I'm no longer a slave to what I wanted to or thought I needed to become. In other words, I no longer have to impress anyone. I no longer feel obliged to have a rock-hard, muscle-clad body. I no longer feel obliged to try to be "social". I no longer feel obliged to find a woman. From now on, I only need to seek my own approval, and that is a much easier task, not to mention a more worthwhile one. I need only be in the game for myself, because no one is gonna be in the game for me. I still want to lose the weight, but that's only because I don't like being fat. I'm still gonna hang out with my friend and go out to bars, but only because it's good for me. I still would like to have women, but only under my terms.

I'm on my way.

_________________
“I learned this, at least, by my experiment; that if one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. . . ."

-Thoreau's Walden

funny how things go. Today I got a call from two female friends of mine....
ever since they got a boyfriend they kind of disappeared on me.

It has been 8-12 months since I heard from both of them. Today I get a call:

Sniper how are you? bla bla bla (you guys probably know what they wanted...)

They are both getting married and want to invite me. At a wedding you need to bring a cheque (money) when you come or if not a cheque then an expensive present instead.

Now let's see:

They disappeared and didn't stay in touch once they got boyfriends. I don't beleive I will hear from them anymore after the wedding (but even if I did- I kind of lost my interest already)

So let's see:
No more value, no use in wasting money (going and giving a fat cheques). Sniper is not going...

_________________
"a sniper is the worst romancer, he never makes the first move"

lol Geez you get invited to more weddings than anyone else I know, and it seems like everyone you know gets married! You should write a guide book: "How to Get Invited to Weddings".

_________________
“I learned this, at least, by my experiment; that if one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours. . . ."

-Thoreau's Walden