Natural Freedom

Forum for the natural awakening and self-realization of men
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 Forum: Introduction Section  Topic: HELLO

 Post subject: HELLO Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:00 pm 

Replies: 13
Views: 9253


Just wanted to say this is a great thing you guys are doing. I have been lurking on this site for a couple of months, and just decided to say hello.

I can't guarantee that I will be posting a great deal, as I am still in the process of reading and learning from the MANY great threads on here, and would like to spend more time getting to know myself and practicing observation, than actually posting.

However, I wanted to thank you all (especially Peregrinus and The Kidd!! - did I get that right?-) for taking the time out to post the wisdom and advice that's contained here. Don't want to get mushy about it or anything, but far too many people have the mentality that they earned their knowledge through their own blood, sweat, and tears, and they'll be damned if they hand it over for free to anyone.

So I just wanted to let you know that your efforts are appreciated (although, if you're walking hand-in-hand with your ego yet keeping that bitch in check, thanks should probably be neither here nor there for you..... or would it?)

 Forum: Introduction Section  Topic: HELLO

 Post subject: Re: HELLO Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:12 pm 

Replies: 13
Views: 9253


^^^ MIRROR ^^^ :lol:

 Forum: Introduction Section  Topic: HELLO

 Post subject: Re: HELLO Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:59 am 

Replies: 13
Views: 9253


Thanks for the warm welcome, everyone.

 Forum: Introduction Section  Topic: HELLO

 Post subject: Re: HELLO Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:11 am 

Replies: 13
Views: 9253


Can't remember how I found you guys. I think I had been browsing some of the seduction community forums, and a reference was made to this forum, can't remember exactly.

Anyway, this forum, and the Attraction Institute (LoGun - I have seen him post here a couple times, actually), were the only ones that seemed to promote authentic behaviour (as well as spiritual development), as opposed to learning a bunch of bullshit routines, and were therefore the only ones I remained interested in.

Some of the ideas promoted in this site (especially pertaining to the social matrix) were a bit hard to swallow at first, but as it is with all things meaningful, I kept finding myself drawn back to this site, and the ideas would make more sense with each visit.

The thing is, I have always found society to be absolute bullshit, and most people around me to be drones (if you think about it, almost everyone is a sheep in one way or another - and the degree merely varies from person to person; that's been my take on it, anyway). But the things you guys discuss regarding a) women, and b) ego are a little deeper than I had gone (although I was beginning to make some of these realisations on my own anyway......)

Sorry I couldn't be more specific about how I found you guys; The last few months have seen me ALL OVER THE PLACE when it comes to social dynamics as seen through the lens of spirituality, so everything's been a blur......

 Forum: Introduction Section  Topic: HELLO

 Post subject: Re: HELLO Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:41 pm 

Replies: 13
Views: 9253


Yeah. In my experience, when someone is REALLY REALLY REALLY ready for something, life can be pretty insistent about dropping it in their lap, even if they continue to ignore it, so my attitude would be to leave the other sites be, and whoever can really handle what is discussed here will be guided here on their own.

This is also why i've stopped trying to discuss the social matrix (especially as it pertains to female sexuality) with guys I know. I kept getting the same faraway, glassy look in their eyes before they either change the subject or blow me off.

My attitude towards conversion of others is now "Fuck dat..." :lol:

 Forum: Meeting, Dating and Connecting  Topic: Observing in the moment

 Post subject: Re: Observing in the moment Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:56 pm 

Replies: 16
Views: 13396


Meraki, I wasn't planning to make any posts on this forum at this point (still reading through and digesting the material) but I have had realisations recently related to your question, and wanted to post them in the event that they may help and encourage you. Warning, this is going to be long, so whether you (or anyone else on this forum) want to read on is up to you (or them):

I also "bristle" (to be specific, I psychologically assume an attack posture) when people provoke me IN A CERTAIN WAY (I am usually very indifferent to personal attacks and "jabs" due to my general disdain for the human species :evil: , but I do have my blind spots)....

Anyways, what I have realised is that, for me at least, noticing incremental improvements in my "response time" (i.e. the time it takes between when I bristle and when I RECOGNISE that I am bristling) encourages me to improve (without really making a helluva lot of effort). Here's how it goes:

At the beginning of this year, I would only recognise LOOOOOOOOONG after the fact that I got defensive when someone made a little jab at me that happened to hit one of the aforementioned blind spots (maybe later that day, or even the next day, or next couple of days). I would tell myself that it's ok, it happens to just about everyone, and since I KNOW that I am more spiritually and psychologically developed than the average motherfucker out there, I WILL improve, and will keep an eye out for these improvements, OUT OF INTEREST AND CURIOUSITY.

Around April/May, I noticed that the "response time" had improved - I was noticing that I was pissed and defensive immediately after the conversation was over. Later that day, I would realise this, recognise the slight improvement, congratulate myself on it, and know that I will continue to improve - after all, I am STILL more developed than the average assholes out there, aren't I? :lol: (I know, I know, watch the ego - anyways, moving on....)

By July/August, I was noticing what was happening to me WHILE in the middle of these types of conversations. THIS is where my confidence in my self improvement took a quantum leap. I mean, to realise that my ego is allowing me to be manipulated WHILE IT IS HAPPENING is somehow hugely empowering.

Fast forward to a couple weeks ago - someone (who I barely know, but who I think is a fairly cool guy) made a casual statement to me that also sounded like a veiled threat. Check out what happened inside my head (this didn't happen in words, I am just using them to describe what happended):

"Whoa, feel that? I was ABOUT TO assume an attack posture!! Interesting.....OK, so what is he REALLY saying? OK, now that I am not being ridden like a horse by my emotions, I can see that what he is telling me could be construed not as a threat, but as good advice, and I will consider it later.....However, this fucker needs to consider carefully how he delivers his advice, 'cause one day he will do this to the wrong person, and there'll be hell to pay for all concerned... At any rate, that wrong person WILL NOT BE ME, so it's NO LONGER MY FUCKING PROBLEM." :D

That's how it's been working for me. I am also beginning to apply it in other areas of my life as well. Perhaps the methodology should be different for each individual, I don't know..... But I thought I should post this, in case it helps.......

 Forum: Meeting, Dating and Connecting  Topic: Observing in the moment

 Post subject: Re: Observing in the moment Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:02 pm 

Replies: 16
Views: 13396


Thanks for the kind words, Kidd!! and Prodigy. After thinking about it, I realised I should add that I am in no way out of the woods - the last event described is only one of several "blind spots" I obviously have.

Basically:

1. Self-observation is an ONGOING PROCESS to be applied to all areas of life, particularily human interactions, and if my experiences so far are anything to go by, this doesn't need to be an exhaustive, computational procedure - just kind of happens via awareness, I guess. Kidd!! and Grinus can expand on this far better than I could, if they feel it necessary.

2. I must constantly keep in mind, as per Kidd!!'s and Grinus' advice (as well as others, notably Sniper) in other areas of this forum - ENJOY THE JOURNEY. After all, I will never be this "green" and inexperienced again; so I should enjoy it while I still have it..........


I have read the two Esther Vilar books, and have just finished Great Female Con, so when I gather my thoughts, I will write a post about my experiences while reading these books (more vomit on the deck of the Nebuchadnezzar, as you would have expected), but in the meantime, more reading for me, less talking.

Anyway, keep fighting the good fight with this forum, guys. Roark out (for now).......

 Forum: Meeting, Dating and Connecting  Topic: Observing in the moment

 Post subject: Re: Observing in the moment Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:05 pm 

Replies: 16
Views: 13396


Meraki wrote:
Ps. Roark - if you want me to send you more of the books people recommend here on the forum, just send me a pm - I've collected quite a few of them since showing up here, and would be happy to pass them on...
Thanks for the offer, Meraki. I've got most of the ones i've seen recommended around here, so i'm ok.

Funny you should mention the Iceberg book, cause i'm going to read that next. But first, I might read Predatory Female. You see, I read Great Female Con and the two Esther Vilar books, went through the disorientation and intense anger, and have only just regained my equilibrium. But I want to get myself back in that state DELIBERATELY, to observe my emotions and see WHAT ELSE I can find out about myself.

I only mention this to you as my admittedly roundabout way of asking - isn't self observation fun & interesting? I find as time goes on, it is less about becoming more impressive to others, and more about just enjoying the many "craters" within my psyche. And ironically, the more I do it purely for the enjoyment of self-analysis, the more others subconsciously respond to me - men seem to be fucking with me less and less, and the jocking from women (which I always used to get) is now almost off the charts.

I have noticed a slight tendency towards preaching/proselytizing in my posts (everyone, feel free to call me out on it if you notice it! - i'm here to learn, after all), and wanted to leave this post without saying more, but I can't resist pointing out the following (in relation to my previous paragraph above), something interesting I came across recently:
Quote:
"I am thinking, rather, of the well-known fact that anyone who has INSIGHT INTO HIS OWN ACTIONS, and has thus found access to the unconscious, involuntarily exercises an influence on his environment......... It is an unintentional influence ON THE UNCONSCIOUS OF OTHERS, a sort of unconscious prestige, and ITS EFFECT LASTS ONLY SO LONG AS IT IS NOT DISTURBED BY CONSCIOUS INTENTION."
(Carl Gustav Jung - The Undiscovered Self, Chapter 7; emphasis mine)

Pretty cool, huh? What we discuss here is definitely not as new as we may be tempted to think; my guess is that although this knowledge has been around for a while, self knowledge is usually too painful, requires too much humility, takes too long, and (the biggest reason, in my view) requires too much personal responsibility for the average person to be even interested in pursuing it...........

SO THE MERE FACT THAT WE ON THIS SITE ARE EVEN ATTEMPTING TO DO THIS DISTINGUISHES US FROM THE HERD.

Anyway, unfortunately I only have a hard-copy of that book, so I cannot PM it to you, but if you are interested in it, you should be able to track it down. (NOTE TO ADMINISTRATORS - if you want me to expand on Carl Gustav Jung, let me know and I will open a thread - I believe, though, that someone here already recommended him - I think it was Prodigy?)

Anyway Meraki, best of luck with your ongoing journey, but most importantly, I HOPE YOU HAVE FUN WITH IT.

 Forum: Meeting, Dating and Connecting  Topic: Observing in the moment

 Post subject: Re: Observing in the moment Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:48 am 

Replies: 16
Views: 13396


Meraki wrote:
playing a game that is 3 levels above the reality that everyone else operates on.

I guess that while the manipulated man helped to wake me up to the negative effects of the matrix and its pervasiveness, Pimp started to give me inklings of the advantage that people have that can train themselves to play on the higher levels above the matrix. It didn't necessarily always end well for Iceburg, but I think that is more to his goals not being well thought out, rather than indicating that the potential isn't there to use some of the same strategies for different results.

So, I guess my point about all of this is that reading Pimp may very well put you into an altered state, just like Villar's books and the Female Con - just a different altered state not based on anger...
This is a very valuable heads-up - I will keep this in mind while reading "Pimp". Thank you for this.
Meraki wrote:
I don't understand people that feel a need to watch so much tv. My own life is sooooo much more interesting...
Can totally relate. Notice that the second sentence may well explain the first? ;)

There is a film that Peregrinus recommended called "Network" (1976, I think) with Fay Dunaway and Robert Duvall, among others - it speaks to this and other things that we discuss on this forum. It blew my mind when I watched it, how prophetic it was. You should check it out when you get a chance (if you haven't already).
GoldenBoy wrote:
Ever laughed out loud because you were watching your thoughts or shit like that ? :lol: :lol:
Yeah - more like a chuckle. No one has noticed yet, which I think is a good sign...... :D

 Forum: Meeting, Dating and Connecting  Topic: Observing in the moment

 Post subject: Re: Observing in the moment Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:02 am 

Replies: 16
Views: 13396


Also, a correction:
roark wrote:
if you want me to expand on Carl Gustav Jung, let me know and I will open a thread - I believe, though, that someone here already recommended him - I think it was Prodigy?).
It was rkd1990's recommendation: http://www.naturalfreedom.info/viewtopi ... =22&t=1923

Just nitpicking.

Roark out.

 Forum: Meeting, Dating and Connecting  Topic: QUICK QUESTION: PUPIL DILATION

 Post subject: QUICK QUESTION: PUPIL DILATION Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:57 pm 

Replies: 9
Views: 7428


Just wanted to ask the guys on this forum (would especially love to hear from Kidd!! & 'Grinus on this) - is the absence of pupil dilation in a woman's eyes a sign that she is not interested AT ALL?

The reason I ask is that a girl who I run into occasionally always makes it a point to jock me. Last time I ran into her her, she looked me dead in the eyes, and as usual, I looked straight back. However, I noticed that her pupils were hardly dilated (this forum's contribution to my improvements in observation duly noted). I figure every time a woman flirts, it is either to stroke their libido (which puts me in this mood: ;) ), or to stroke their ego (which results in roark being :evil: ).

So once I figured that she was only stroking her ego, I became totally disinterested (but not angry - I love the real me that is emerging....) Actually, immediately after the realisation, I just walked away from her with total indifference and without a word (no act - simply how I felt).

I have no problems with the above, but I just want to know if my pupil dilation assumption could be wrong. After all, there are two sides to treating people accordingly, and I don't want to dish out this treatment to someone who doesn't deserve it. (As I regain my equilibrium after swallowing the red pill - I believe you call it recalibration? - I am deciding on the person I want to be, and while I have no problem psychologically body-slamming a bitch who is only out to boost her ego, I still want to inspire those few who approach right - don't worry, not by symping, but by TEASING THE FUCK OUT OF THEM..... Which is how I was even before I came across you guys - you just show me how to do it better, and from a stronger place.)

 Forum: Meeting, Dating and Connecting  Topic: QUICK QUESTION: PUPIL DILATION

 Post subject: Re: QUICK QUESTION: PUPIL DILATION Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:59 pm 

Replies: 9
Views: 7428


Also, just letting you know - my access to the internet has been sporadic of late, so please don't take it the wrong way if you post something and I don't respond in a timely fashion........

 Forum: Your experiences and stories  Topic: More fun

 Post subject: Re: More fun Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:09 pm 

Replies: 33
Views: 12957


peregrinus wrote:
fufe wrote:
They always complain about men being X, Y, Z, but they themselves often to the same with men they like :?
*cough cough*

Mirror
'Grinus, do you ever call them out on this?

Reason I ask is that lately, I have noticed many different manifestations of this in women: e.g. their favourite word when describing men now seems to be the word "needy", and they biiiiiitch about the games men play :? . Usually, I have to hide the fact that I am pissing myself :lol: :lol: :lol: , but sometimes I really have to bite my tongue.....

Especially since my latest obsession is with CG Jung, I just feel like saying: "Projection, you dumb bitches!!!!".

I guess if my gut tells me to speak up, I should. I just wanted to know if you have ever pointed this out, and if there were any particularily memorable ways in which you did this that you would be interested in sharing.

 Forum: Letting go, creating and self-realization  Topic: I don't even know who I am anymore

 Post subject: Re: I don't even know who I am anymore Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:49 pm 

Replies: 27
Views: 16541


Quote:
What I thought was indifference is actually me being apathetic. Apathy as a reaction to me having a deep and gigantic fear and expectation of people not liking me.

Don't you think you should at least congratulate yourself for having this realisation? Respect is due. Very few people self-observe.....
Quote:
And either I just stay quiet and keep to myself, even when I am genuinely curious about what is being said,
This is one of the wars i've been fighting too. I see examples of "pimp-tight" behaviour on this forum, "know" that this is how I should be, and sometimes act like it, WITH SOMETIMES DISASTEROUS RESULTS. After swallowing the red pill, I have realised that my next step is NOT to BECOME like the other guys on this forum, but find out how the discovery of the all-encompassing nature of the matrix relates to the man I was, the man I wanted to become before seeing the matrix, and the man I want to become now that I have seen it. I predict that I will NOT be like the Kidd!!, nor even like 'Grinus (even though his writing reminds me a lot of myself sometimes) - and I hope that I will not become who I WANT to be, but instead have faith that I will become THE MAN I TRULY AM ALREADY (think about this - if it still doesn't make sense, see Grinus' sig).

DON'T DESPAIR - you simply have internal decisions to make, and "inner-demon work" to do (instructions on this will be found all through this forum). I am going through this too, and can already see a faint light at the end of the tunnel.

.......followed by another tunnel, then another light, then another tunnel, etc....... :lol: :lol: :lol: We just deal with them as they turn up (and they do at the right time).
Quote:
I place way too much importance on feeling positive vibes from people, and get frustrated when I stay quiet and don't have people engaging me.
This happens to me too. A lot less, now that I know what it is. I could tell you what I have realised it is, but I would be cheating you. Everytime you feel this, look at the feeling and ask, why? What do I want? I find that I have to be hard on myself in order to find the answer, and then be gentle & forgiving with myself, once I do.
Quote:
I see men around me visibly initiating, trying and changing their mannerisms when a women walks in, and that they (the women) are responding to it. And I feel completely lost.
Why would you want to be like those guys? They will have to act like that for as long as they want to keep the chick. Can you imagine the effort? My shoulders ache just thinking about it......And if they get married to the woman and have to act like this THE REST OF THEIR LIVES? No thanks.......

The other guys are right to encourage us to forget about chicks for the time being, but maybe this will cheer you up: A lot of the guys here preach about NOT CHASING (it resonates with me, as a matter of fact, based on past experiences), and the latest is that recently I was told that a very impressive chick (looks AND brains) who I met at a party was asking about me after I left. The guy who told me is someone who I always grudgingly admired for years for the amount of chicks he has slept with. When he was describing her reaction to me, I could hear the amazement in his voice. As much pussy as he has gotten, I do not think he has EVER seen this reaction from a woman towards a man, not even him. The guys you are seeing DO NOT GET WOMEN. WOMEN GET THEM!!!!!!!!!
Quote:
Enjoying a simple day is rare because of all this bullshit surfacing from my mind and leading me down weird paths.
Two things:
Quote:
leading me down weird paths
Why not follow these paths? (do not get absorbed by them, just observe the thoughts - other sections of this forum, especially some posts by 'Grinus which I don't have the time to dig up now, go into this). See where they lead....
Quote:
Enjoying a simple day is rare
Unfortunately, you may have to get used to this. Let me explain....

I CANNOT GO OUT FOR ONE GODDAMNED PLEASANT AFTERNOON BY MYSELF WITHOUT SOME FUCKING CHICK JOCKING ME. IT IS NOW A PAIN IN THE ASS!!!!!
Quote:
I know that I should be the one to figure this out
You're right.
Quote:
I fear I've gotten hopelessly lost.
Correct, except for the hopeless part. Go inside your mind. You are the best company for yourself; not a girlfriend, not a "soulmate" (ugh!), not even your closest male friend, nor your parents - YOU ARE.

However, let me warn you - your inner demons will pop up after a while, and it may even be SCARY AS FUCK. What I am doing is remembering that I AM THE ONE WHO PUT THEM THERE (fear, shame, embarrassment, self loathing, hate, etc.) Personally, what I am doing is offering them the opportunity to come back up into the illuminated (conscious) parts of my mind, welcoming them back to a place at my dinner table so to speak, BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THEY BELONG, AND DESERVE TO BE:

Come back home, fellas. We have work to do - TOGETHER (in other words, once integrated into the conscious parts of my mind, I figure these demons will give me far greater power; not just with women, but with my work, passions, etc.....)

To the other members of the forum, feel free to correct anything that you feel is mistaken. I am still a rookie.

Hope this helps, Moose. I have to go out now, and my internet has been sporadic lately, so I can't guarantee I can even reply to any questions you may have, but there are far more capable guys here who can help out....

 Forum: Meeting, Dating and Connecting  Topic: QUICK QUESTION: PUPIL DILATION

 Post subject: Re: QUICK QUESTION: PUPIL DILATION Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:55 pm 

Replies: 9
Views: 7428


The Kidd!! wrote:
If she is doing it for ego boosting, then you probably WON'T see pupil dilation...because it's not about you...it's about HER. :ugeek:
Thanks, just wanted to be sure.....

 Forum: Meeting, Dating and Connecting  Topic: QUICK QUESTION: PUPIL DILATION

 Post subject: Re: QUICK QUESTION: PUPIL DILATION Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:57 pm 

Replies: 9
Views: 7428


Scarf wrote:
In my view; pupil dilation works both ways, which also explains mascara, eye lash and eye shadow make up.

Possibly one of the strongest all time attractants - and NOT limited to women.
Will think on this/observe further. Really interesting. Thanks.

Isn't it fun how eye contact can sometimes FREEZE a woman's ENTIRE BODY? The arousal that is flowing through them when it happens must be OFF THE CHARTS.....

 Forum: Your experiences and stories  Topic: More fun

 Post subject: Re: More fun Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:59 pm 

Replies: 33
Views: 12957


Thanks. I was hoping you would tell me not to call them out on it. Not for my sake, but for theirs......

 Forum: Your experiences and stories  Topic: More fun

 Post subject: Re: More fun Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:06 pm 

Replies: 33
Views: 12957


8-) 8-) 8-)

 Forum: Meeting, Dating and Connecting  Topic: QUICK QUESTION: PUPIL DILATION

 Post subject: Re: QUICK QUESTION: PUPIL DILATION Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:48 am 

Replies: 9
Views: 7428


peregrinus wrote:
roark wrote:
Isn't it fun how eye contact can sometimes FREEZE a woman's ENTIRE BODY? The arousal that is flowing through them when it happens must be OFF THE CHARTS.....
Projection.

Pure and simple.

and

Mirror.
Thank you for the wake-up call.....

......and the ego check.

 Forum: Letting go, creating and self-realization  Topic: I don't even know who I am anymore

 Post subject: Re: I don't even know who I am anymore Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:55 pm 

Replies: 27
Views: 16541


Thank you Moose and 'Grinus for the kind words.

Moose, I kind of hinted at it before, but i'll say it again for clarity - I am in the same boat. I have been going through some of these things too, just in my own way. Just wanted to point that out; although we shouldn't be in the business of ego-soothing around here, it's sometimes reassuring to know we aren't the only ones going through whatever we're going through.

Cool - enough bro-hugging, etc. from me.......just one more thing:
Quote:
not because so and so did this or that to me.
Quote:
but I created the reaction,
Pat yourself on the back again (not for too long, though)....... this represents something I consider SO IMPORTANT to my own development:

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Fucking beautiful. I'm outta here...... :D
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